Sufficient Self Forum - Let's have a heart-to-heart

[dacjohns]

Damummis said something I would like to address. When threads are taken down it would be really nice and a polite thing to explain to the OP why the action was taken. I have had threads on BYC taken down with no explanation, even after PMing a mod. I got no response from the mod at all. To me that is just disrespectful, it says we are not worthy of their time.

 

[Windyhillfarms]

Damummis said something I would like to address. When threads are taken down it would be really nice and a polite thing to explain to the OP why the action was taken. I have had threads on BYC taken down with no explanation, even after PMing a mod. I got no response from the mod at all. To me that is just disrespectful, it says we are not worthy of their time.

I have to second that. Although I must say that reading his post made me think "wow, do I really want to be part of something that would even delete a journal???" I'm still trying to decide the answer to that question.

If you expect everybody to be politically correct to everybody else, to not offend anybody, walk on eggshells and watch every word we say for fear of retribution, then at least give the same thing back. While I understand a moderator's job is "hard" and "unpaid", quite frankly without the members, you wouldn't have a forum for them to moderate ... to see that a long time member was treated that way is quite frankly appalling to me, especially given the fact that it was an honest question that should have been addressed LONG before this thread was created as it was obvious that this issue had far reaching ramifications as far as the other members of the forum are concerned.

As every forum becomes a family of sorts to most of the core members I will paint this scenario. Brother 1 and sister 2 are having a discussion in the living, along with everybody else. Brother 1 insults sister 2 as only a brother can do. Sister 2 drags in Brother 2 and, seeing an explosion about to come, Mom shoves all three of them out of the living room, dolling out punishment, guilt trip, forced apologies, whatever it takes to resolve said issue. In the meantime, everybody in the living has noticed and is watching, speculating, the tale growing larger and larger the longer they are in the other room, with bits and pieces of conversations being heard through the walls. The mother, being wise, enters the living room, gives a synopsis without assigning blame, and everybody nods and picks up their conversations where they left off ...

 

[elevan]

No journal was deleted. If a member who left (of their own accord and stated so publicly) and returns and had their journal moved from the forum because it contained drama wants to have the drama removed and it put back then all they have to do is PM a staff member. I believe that this was addressed previously by terrielacy in another thread.

 

[Damummis]

The point is,

I was not notified why threads were removed. How lame! If I did something wrong then tell me. If I offended anyone, heaven forbid, tell me. To just act as if a parent saying, "because I said so" is well immature.

The lack of communication between mods and members in this situation is a huge issue on this and sister forums, for me.

ETA: Honestly, yeah, I do want an apology.

 

[Wannabefree]

Just because the person has removed themselves from posting on the forum doesn't indicate their thoughts/journals are worthless. If a thread/journal is taken down due to clean up issues, it should be put back up prior to clean up, unless the OP requests it not be. That just gives the appearance of moderation being vindictive IMO. And it robs the rest of us of information and memories with/of that poster. It also quite frankly pisses me off that ANY of our members would be treated as if they no longer matter. It's the utmost cyber disrespect and a slap in the face to the OP and those who care about them and what they have/had to say. I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy :/ Sometimes,I think maybe the moderators needs moderating.

 

[Wifezilla]

Exactly Wannabe. Abi's journal comes to mind. I think other people posted stuff on her journal and it got pulled down, but I can't remember her posting anything that caused it to go away. She received no notification. It was just gone.

 

[justusnak]

WBF, you hit the nail om the head. For a mod to remove a journal of someone, without their knowledge, OR explanation...well...all I can say is, "someone" needs to grow up. Every journal on here has at least some bit of information that would be helpful to someone. For that information to be removed, because " he/she said something snarky" well...I just think that is vindictive, and mean. We had a good thing going her for a while, however, I guess, like all good things must at some point, come to an end. What a shame....I really miss this place, the friends, the information, the ideas...wow...just wow.

 

[Marianne]

No journal was deleted. If a member who left (of their own accord and stated so publicly) and returns and had their journal moved from the forum because it contained drama wants to have the drama removed and it put back then all they have to do is PM a staff member. I believe that this was addressed previously by terrielacy in another thread.

This answers some of the questions.

Again, we still have good people on the forum that have skills and knowledge.

I, for one, will be really glad when all this has settled down. Venting is one thing, but hashing it out over and over serves no purpose.

 

[savingdogs]

I see that Windyhillfarms, Damummis and Framing fowl have changed the tone of this thread to the extent that I'm encouraged to post the reasons why I left. Not because I'm returning, this thread is too little, too late and has actually increased my level of dismay at how things were handled. Like Damummis, I came to this forum rather ignorant but with eyes wide open, ready to learn. I had actually been heavily BASHED at BYH by some of the members there when I dared to ask a question about breeding a four-teated doe. I was treated like white trash by the high class "backyard" breeders and was even told by one member that he wouldn't even allow my doe on his property! I was rather horrified, but a person by the name of OFG invited me to join her and her friends over here, at SS, because she happened to spot it and reached out and pulled me into this group here.

So holding up BYH as a model of harmony really does not wash with me. People are allowed to be very superior there, in my opinion, and it would be more aptly called "professional goat breeding snobs", not "backyard" except for a few outstanding individuals, most of whom were ALSO participating here at SS. I began to only interact with the rabbit portion of BYH because those folks were kinder and gentler on a newbie and spent my time here and I could find out the same information in a more pleasant way and not be treated like backyard goats were just beyond the reach of poor people like me.

And sure enough, I found a home here with these frugal and resourceful folks. As a deaf person, I found a community who I can understand and communicate with that also understands my life goals and daily living and no one feeling sorry for oneself, unlike a support group for deaf folks. I felt very welcomed by the members, even if I did note the obnoxious cousin as well as others with whom I did not see eye to eye, I can agree to disagree and be polite. I never felt like this was a clique, but rather a wonderful group of welcoming people, and I learned so much and came to admire many and use them as my new role models for my new life. I even realized that I began to be more self sufficient myself and could teach others things and gradually over the course of a couple years became a regular poster. It was not hard to jump into conversations and join this group.

I did start to note a "anti-clique" trend with moderation a few months ago. A new and annoying person on the soap thread was treated with kid gloves and those of us trying to straighten this person out had our posts edited, not sure of the moderator there, Then I heard from another poster about a thread where the politically correct sensitivities of new members were offended by the thought of killing MICE, and I believe the mod was Reinbeau. Then a few weeks later the issue of the POW arose. I contributed to a thread on Dace's journal asking why these pictures were suddenly not allowed and posted a polite question about it, and about my concerns that great members were leaving.

I received a WARNING from Elevan (yes, you, Elevan, not someone else) for my post! My simple post was deleted, along with the people who posted before and after me, and I learned that we ALL received warnings for simply wondering about those darn pictures and about what was going on. That was considered questioning moderation and I was cited for "tone." Then the journals of my friends started disappearing so I felt I had to copy everything I wanted off of mine, what a pain.

Since many of us were already friends on Facebook and other forums, we have just re-formed attachments at other places through this and I'm actually very thankful. I enjoy the format at Facebook much more, it moves much faster and there is no annoying moderation. I also enjoy the new forum to which many of us belong, and for me things have improved and I've gotten to know my friends much better. So I am overall GRATEFUL this happened, unlike many of my online friends and I'm trying to see the positive where some of them are more sentimental. Any sentimentality I felt ended when I read this thread.

I do feel bad for those people who did not choose to join us at the new place. I am very attached to a few of you and wish things were not as they are. But I do not see that this thread will mend fences for me and make me feel comfortable posting anywhere on these forums here anymore. I'm slowly unsubscribing to threads and trying to find new ways to contact those whom I love that are still here (you know who you are).

This WAS a very nice place but moderation got out of hand. Political correctness reigned. Self sufficiency lost. This thread showed me just how non-contrite the moderation really is, especially some of Elevan's posts here belittling my reasons for leaving, I was just "chatter".......and I truly resent my feelings being reduced to such in her post. This has been helpful only in cementing my final decision to never post here again.

Savingdogs

 

[Sunny]

I totally missed what went on. Im sorry that it did, and I did notice alot of people who usually post daily, missing. I at first thought it was the end of harvest and the comming holidays that kept them away. Cause they were busy at home. I totally missed the pic that was posted and the drama that followed. I dont even know what the picture was of. But I have heard others mention it was a dead animal photo. I am not living the SS life style, but want to. I live in an apartment. But I have kept Coturnix Quail for eggs, I rehomed them because of a nosy MIL. But we just got a male bunny as a pet, later he will end up being our meat rabbit breeder. And later I would love the whole instructions on how to butcher. With pics so I know it was done right and with out as much pain and drama to the animal in question. So their last momments were not fear. I know some would object to those pictures, but without vivid instructions, it could be a lost art. There may be no one local to show us how. But I know I can find an SS member that knows how. And hands on training is the best way to learn, and online its photos that do that.

I know when I first became a member here, I was just basically a lerker, and just signed up to follow a thread that interested me. Ive learned alot on here. I was a BYC member first. Because of this site I Started my list of books I need. And stuff I need to buy. I miss the gloom and doom stuff. Yes some is scary and a bit depressing, but to me it is needed. It gets some people thinking about what needs to be done. A few of the gloom and doom posts with links to articles is what is getting my DH on board to be more SS. But we can only do so much where we live. But it can make us develop a plan.

I sure miss all the posts from the missing people. I sure hope they come back. Even if I never posted on their topics, I still read them and learned. We need our knowledge back. I know there are still great people here. But every one has their own views on things and different ways of doing things. One way may not work for you, but some one else has a different way you can try.

Hopefully I didnt say any thing wrong.

To the SSers that left, Please come back your very missed.
I dont know how to contact the people that left and beg them to come back. If you know how, please let them know how missed they are. THank you.