Supreme Court ruling re Monsanto's GMO alfalfa

[Quail_Antwerp]

Actually, my composted manure laden garden is doing TREMENDOUSLY well this year - sadly, because the farmer across the road most likely plans GMO crops, I cannot guarantee that what my garden produces is GMO free even though we tried to purchase heirloom only.

Hey, our previous neighbor used RoundUp on our fence line, and we went off the wall on him. He not only sprayed our fence, he sprayed our garden AND OUR DOG. Poor Earnhardt nearly died, and the garden was a total loss. We weren't willing to chance eating anything out of it after that.

That neighbor was a jerk. He put chemicals on everything. We're chemical free.

He said, and I quote, "When I'm done with you, you won't be living there anymore."

He kept using his chemicals to kill weeds, keep out bugs, etc. etc.

He died of cancer.

 

[Wifezilla]

 

[reinbeau]

People, we need to disagree without being disagreeable. We also need to realize we all come from different directions and have different thoughts on matters - rather than berate, educate. It's the only way we'll win in the end.

 

[Icu4dzs]

Well, if ~gd wants to grow GMO modified corn, then what I'll do is burn it in my corn stove which heats my house. To date, no harmful side effects of GMO corn have hurt my stove. I know better than to eat it but as I said, my stove doesn't care.

I appreciate Reinbeau's call for civility here. She has done it before and appears to be a true "voice of reason" here. Whether ~gd has opinions that vary from those of many of the others, the first amendment of the Constitution of the United States (something I spent 40 years in a uniform defending and which is NOW in great jeopardy) allows.

We all have the right to an opinion. We also have the right to disagree. Many of us have risked and many have given their lives to protect and preserve those rights. Let's work together to do what we can to help each other.

Reinbeau, you have my vote! Thanks
Trim

 

[Lady Henevere]

Icu4dcs, thank you for your service to our country.

The problem with GMO crops is not about personal choice, as ~gd says, or about whether the resulting product has some use, as Icu4dzs mentions. The problem is the fact that the crops are terrible for the environment and terrible for farmers. Whether I personally choose to use GMO products, either to eat or burn, the fact that they are planted at all for any use causes a whole disturbing chain of events that affects more than just the individual consumer:

--heavy use of chemical fertilizers, herbicides, and pesticides
--the chemicals impact wildlife and soil fertility (bees, butterflies, soil microbes, etc.)
--the chemicals leach into waterways through runoff
--the chemicals pollute the water, with detrimental results like the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico
--the chemicals are bad for farmers, farm-raised children, and farm workers
--the reliance on GMO crops and related chemicals ensure farmers and their families remain beholden to corporations for new seed each year and the chemicals needed
--vast fields of monocrops are planted and harvested by massive equipment that compacts the soil
--the lack of crop rotation, cover cropping, and chemical-heavy practices results in topsoil loss about 17 times faster than it can be replaced
--the entire system is subsidized by our tax money, and thus does not reflect the true price of food, making cheap, unhealthy food widely available to poor families and resulting in health problems
--GMO genes cannot be contained, so they spread to surrounding farms
--the spread of genes allows companies like Monsanto to sue and harass farmers who don't use Monsanto products

I could go on, but there are entire books on the subject that explain it better. In short, there are lots and lots of reasons "personal choice" or "GMO crops are good for something" are simply not enough. There needs to be some real teeth behind the anti-GMO movement, and since our government and big ag are in bed together, it hasn't happened yet. I'm hoping that "we the people" can find the strength and power to fight it. That we can find sustainable options that don't result in corporations getting richer while farmers go broke. That we can support and encourage sustainable practices that don't deplete our country's fertile land. That we can ensure that a poor family can buy fresh vegetables to make a meal rather than rely on artificially cheap 99 cent hamburgers. There is a better way, and we need to continue to fight for what's good for all of us, and not just accept what's good for Monsanto.

Rant over. I'll hop off my soapbox now.

 

[Icu4dzs]

My Dear Lady Henevere,
It is a truly monumental problem and if you will forgive the expression you are "preaching to the choir" in this forum. I agree with you 100%. It is however, a much more difficult problem because of the size of the economic impact on the American farm than anyone can imagine. I farm 7 acres of SDAK. Folks here laugh when I say that. They farm THOUSANDS of acres. Their livlihoods are always on the edge of the envelope because of the cost of farming. Farmers here spend a great deal of money to produce huge volumes of food products(and yes, sad to say they use Roundup and a lot of other chemicals) to feed our nation and others in the world. They all do this to make a very modest living for their family. The problem gets worse over time. The weather is never on our side. My 7 acres of corn cost me $2500 to grow last year. They were willing to give me $900 at the elevator for it. You can do the math. Multiply the number by 1000 and you can see what an impact these issues make.

In addition to your completely sound arguements (and I really do agree with you) there is as you say, the effects on the people. I live in a county that has nearly the highest incidence of cancer in the state. Now when you ask the question "is there more disease or more reporting?" many other questions arise, but the truth is the truth!

I don't know what you do or what your farm is producing but we both know that diesel fuel has skyrocketed in price. A John Deere 4420 burns about 4 gallons per hour and moves about 2 mile/hour or less when pulling implements. Newer tractors burn a lot less but then they also cost in the $250,000 range to buy. Fertilizer is brutally expensive now and for that matter so is roundup. While I am NOT justifying anything, I am merely pointing out the issues I see in my area. I take care of these people and almost every day I see someone or hear of someone with a new cancer diagnosis. It is heartbreaking.

You are right. The big corporations such as Monsanto have control over big farming and big farming isn't lucrative. In the 1970's grain was nearly exactly the same value as it is now and a farmer used to have to grow about 10 times less grain to afford a vehicle. Wheat was about $5/bushel then and about $6/bushel now. So now he has to farm 1000 acres instead of 100. Land has gone from $300/acre here to $1500/acre since 2001 when I first visited here. Folks are trying to sell some land for as high as $3500/acre. You can see that this is NOT a sustainable economy. Cash rents went from $20/acre to over $100/acre. Farmers are paying more and making less than ever before. Any guesses as to how long many of them will be able to stay in business? Our country is being driven to its knees economically. It is intentional and deliberate. A better question is "who is doing it?" and "what can we do to stop/reverse it?"

We need a change, but so far, the change we were "promised" by the current administration does not appear to be going the right direction.

Small, family farms are all but extinct now. We need them back.
Caucasian women are having less children than ever before because they all want to have jobs and compete in the job market instead of being mothers to their children...who they send to "day care"to have someone else raise them.

Other groups are having more children than ever before. The goose that lays the golden egg is nearly dead. What do you suggest we do to stop this? I for one am willing to help. But we can't do it here. We have to do it at the ballot box and in the schools and in our communities. Otherwise, we will become a third world nation very soon. Once there is no more money to fund the "social programs" that the democrats have promised in order to attract "votes" what do you think those "voters" will do then?

YMMV
Trim

 

[Quail_Antwerp]

My Dear Lady Henevere,
It is a truly monumental problem and if you will forgive the expression you are "preaching to the choir" in this forum. I agree with you 100%. It is however, a much more difficult problem because of the size of the economic impact on the American farm than anyone can imagine. I farm 7 acres of SDAK. Folks here laugh when I say that. They farm THOUSANDS of acres. Their livlihoods are always on the edge of the envelope because of the cost of farming. Farmers here spend a great deal of money to produce huge volumes of food products(and yes, sad to say they use Roundup and a lot of other chemicals) to feed our nation and others in the world. They all do this to make a very modest living for their family. The problem gets worse over time. The weather is never on our side. My 7 acres of corn cost me $2500 to grow last year. They were willing to give me $900 at the elevator for it. You can do the math. Multiply the number by 1000 and you can see what an impact these issues make.

In addition to your completely sound arguements (and I really do agree with you) there is as you say, the effects on the people. I live in a county that has nearly the highest incidence of cancer in the state. Now when you ask the question "is there more disease or more reporting?" many other questions arise, but the truth is the truth!

I don't know what you do or what your farm is producing but we both know that diesel fuel has skyrocketed in price. A John Deere 4420 burns about 4 gallons per hour and moves about 2 mile/hour or less when pulling implements. Newer tractors burn a lot less but then they also cost in the $250,000 range to buy. Fertilizer is brutally expensive now and for that matter so is roundup. While I am NOT justifying anything, I am merely pointing out the issues I see in my area. I take care of these people and almost every day I see someone or hear of someone with a new cancer diagnosis. It is heartbreaking.

You are right. The big corporations such as Monsanto have control over big farming and big farming isn't lucrative. In the 1970's grain was nearly exactly the same value as it is now and a farmer used to have to grow about 10 times less grain to afford a vehicle. Wheat was about $5/bushel then and about $6/bushel now. So now he has to farm 1000 acres instead of 100. Land has gone from $300/acre here to $1500/acre since 2001 when I first visited here. Folks are trying to sell some land for as high as $3500/acre. You can see that this is NOT a sustainable economy. Cash rents went from $20/acre to over $100/acre. Farmers are paying more and making less than ever before. Any guesses as to how long many of them will be able to stay in business? Our country is being driven to its knees economically. It is intentional and deliberate. A better question is "who is doing it?" and "what can we do to stop/reverse it?"

We need a change, but so far, the change we were "promised" by the current administration does not appear to be going the right direction.

Small, family farms are all but extinct now. We need them back.
Caucasian women are having less children than ever before because they all want to have jobs and compete in the job market instead of being mothers to their children...who they send to "day care"to have someone else raise them.

Other groups are having more children than ever before. The goose that lays the golden egg is nearly dead. What do you suggest we do to stop this? I for one am willing to help. But we can't do it here. We have to do it at the ballot box and in the schools and in our communities. Otherwise, we will become a third world nation very soon. Once there is no more money to fund the "social programs" that the democrats have promised in order to attract "votes" what do you think those "voters" will do then?

YMMV
Trim

Excellent post!!

We're farming 7 acres, too, and making it. Barely making it sometimes, but still surviving.

We have five kids. 1 girl, 4 boys. We do everything on our small farm by hand - no big machinery, etc. Fence posts are put in by hand - even the digging of the holes, etc. Fence, by hand.

Garden - ok we do use a rototiller, but we plant everything by hand, weed it by hand, hoe the garden, etc.

We're not getting rich, but we're making ends meet, and we're eating healthier foods fresh from our garden than most people around us do.

My kids wouldn't know what a daycare was if they were standing in one....and we home school.

 

[Wifezilla]

Small, family farms are all but extinct now. We need them back.

Agreed

Caucasian women are having less children than ever before because they all want to have jobs and compete in the job market instead of being mothers to their children...who they send to "day care"to have someone else raise them.
Other groups are having more children than ever before.

What does race have to do with anything? And I am sure as hell not going to pop out more kids to "help"

 

[Quail_Antwerp]

Small, family farms are all but extinct now. We need them back.

Agreed

Caucasian women are having less children than ever before because they all want to have jobs and compete in the job market instead of being mothers to their children...who they send to "day care"to have someone else raise them.
Other groups are having more children than ever before.

What does race have to do with anything? And I am sure as hell not going to pop out more kids to "help"

I don't think it's just Caucasian's. All people in general are having few kids.

Large families - especially large families with the same two parents - are nearly gone.

 

[reinbeau]

No, actually, it is Caucasian women that are having fewer children, the statistics are out there - somewhere, I'll find them if you want. I get Trim's point, but it's not something that anything can be 'done' about. I too lament the decision to have everyone in the workforce leaving the child rearing to others - it isn't good for the children, it isn't good for families, and I'm speaking for the viewpoint of a former working mother, it's damned hard on the women. But that's what happened when they decided to push us into full-blown consumerism, the only way to keep that engine going was to have two incomes, so you could keep up with the credit card payments and the inflated mortgage payments, while accumulating all kinds of 'stuff'. Then there's the mortgage mess, that's a whole 'nother rant.

We need to de-centralize, we need to return to our smaller groups for everything, from families, through farms, to smaller houses, to spending within our means. We also need to do business in a more sustainable manner, without the unbridled greed; but now that cat is totally out of the bag and ruling the planet - it's not just American capitalism and greed, it's world domination greed.

I have no idea how to fix it, but I see the problems. Well, I do have ideas, but they aren't popular with many. I think a few here would agree.

As for Monsanto, we need to continue to drive them out of business. Get them out of our food supply completely. If we all keep educating people we can make it happen.