Supreme Court ruling re Monsanto's GMO alfalfa

[Quail_Antwerp]

We need to de-centralize, we need to return to our smaller groups for everything, from families, through farms, to smaller houses, to spending within our means. We also need to do business in a more sustainable manner, without the unbridled greed; <snip>

OK, some of us have done this. We're now looked upon as the "lower class" or "dirt poor" because some of us are not motivated by money or by having a ton of stuff.

Truly, I despise money and want to get rid of a lot of our "stuff". I'm not "woo'ed" by the newest snazzy cell phone or digital gadget, etc.

Sure, the stuff is nice, but the trade off is BIG DEBT.

People who are into all that "gotta have" and live like they have $$ growing on their apple trees really don't have all that $ - they have the DEBTS.

My husband and I both personally believe a sustainable living can be made through farming - IF you don't have to have that brand new six figured tractor. IF you are willing to go out and get your hands dirty. IF you are willing to go out and spend 1-2 weeks putting up your pasture by hand (not using machinery to dig holes, plant posts, etc.)

Sure, all that machinery gets it done faster, but it also gives you BIG DEBT so what income your farm could be generating for you is paying for the fancy tractor with air conditioning because God Forbid should a person break a sweat working their own land.

And before someone says it takes a lot of man power to run a farm by hand, let me just say farmers used to have LARGE families (and I mean as in a dozen kids!) and the boys were in the fields with dad as soon as they were old enough. Daughters helped mom's around the house and in the garden. Could still be done today if we made kids actually put the electronic games down and DO something. And if parents did the parenting instead of kids parenting the parents.

 

[DrakeMaiden]

Edited to remove unhelpful comment - keep it civil

Our bodies have evolved in a world full of microorganisms, it is only the new ones we are breeding through antibiotic and other chemical/biochemical applications that are causing us the most harm.

Hey, our previous neighbor used RoundUp on our fence line, and we went off the wall on him. He not only sprayed our fence, he sprayed our garden AND OUR DOG. Poor Earnhardt nearly died, and the garden was a total loss. We weren't willing to chance eating anything out of it after that.

That neighbor was a jerk. He put chemicals on everything. We're chemical free.

He said, and I quote, "When I'm done with you, you won't be living there anymore."

He kept using his chemicals to kill weeds, keep out bugs, etc. etc.

He died of cancer.

If only it always worked like that. Unfortunately it takes years for the cumulative effects of indiscriminate chemical use to mess up someone's health, and in the meanwhile those types get to wreak a lot of havoc on those around them.

 

[DrakeMaiden]

OK, some of us have done this. We're now looked upon as the "lower class" or "dirt poor" because some of us are not motivated by money or by having a ton of stuff.

Truly, I despise money and want to get rid of a lot of our "stuff". I'm not "woo'ed" by the newest snazzy cell phone or digital gadget, etc.

Sure, the stuff is nice, but the trade off is BIG DEBT.

People who are into all that "gotta have" and live like they have $$ growing on their apple trees really don't have all that $ - they have the DEBTS.

My husband and I both personally believe a sustainable living can be made through farming - IF you don't have to have that brand new six figured tractor. IF you are willing to go out and get your hands dirty. IF you are willing to go out and spend 1-2 weeks putting up your pasture by hand (not using machinery to dig holes, plant posts, etc.)

Sure, all that machinery gets it done faster, but it also gives you BIG DEBT so what income your farm could be generating for you is paying for the fancy tractor with air conditioning because God Forbid should a person break a sweat working their own land.

And before someone says it takes a lot of man power to run a farm by hand, let me just say farmers used to have LARGE families (and I mean as in a dozen kids!) and the boys were in the fields with dad as soon as they were old enough. Daughters helped mom's around the house and in the garden. Could still be done today if we made kids actually put the electronic games down and DO something. And if parents did the parenting instead of kids parenting the parents.

Well-said, Quail. I would rather look dirt poor and have my health and be rich with the experiences of building/cultivating a life with my own hands.

 

[valmom]

I am more and more often grateful that I live in Vermont. Too small for Monsatan to care too much about (although there are GMO farmers up here), and as a state, very into organic and locally produced food where you know where it was grown and how. There are more issues here with GMO contamination because organic is big.

What about the news story I heard recently about roundup ready over use in monoculture has now spawned roundup ready super weeds? Talk about karma. Some monoculture farmers are looking at the weeds taking over their fields and have nothing to do about them. You just can't hand pull thousands of acres of weeds!

GMO alfalfa is a really stupid idea. Even more useless than GMO food crops. Not a chance I would feed my horses contaminated hay! I love my hay guy

 

[Farmfresh]

I really think that may be the solution to all of this ... if there is one.

Lobbying at the State level.

Look at California. They produce much of the countries commercial vegetables and have several world class wineries. The people have lobbied to create laws that PROHIBIT the import of certain types of plants that might carry diseases that could impact their crops.

There was a thread about currant bushes being illegal to ship to certain other states because of a possible disease it might carry.

If the people can get these types of laws passed then perhaps a State could make it illegal to plant a GMO plant based on the possible contamination of other crops. What do you all think?

There are already instances of countries refusing to purchase GMO crops and refusing GMO seeds. So that could be used as leverage as well. Why would we want to plant a crop that COULD be exported for sale and then have it contaminated to the point that it becomes unsaleable because of GMO contamination?

Get those petitions ready folks. Lets change the freaking laws!

 

[Wifezilla]

Diversity and decentralization

 

[reinbeau]

Diversity and decentralization

You got it, Wifey!

Oh, and education!

 

[Lady Henevere]

It looks like counties can ban them:

In 2004, Mendocino County, California became the first county in the United States to ban the production of GMOs. The measure passed with a 57% majority. In California, Trinity and Marin counties have also imposed bans on GM crops, while ordinances to do so were unsuccessful in Butte, Lake, San Luis Obispo, Humboldt, and Sonoma counties. Supervisors in the agriculturally-rich counties of Fresno, Kern, Kings, Solano, Sutter, and Tulare have passed resolutions supporting the practice.

From Wikipedia. I'm not sure if these laws have been challenged or not.

ETA a link with info on efforts to ban GMOs in various areas: http://www.organicconsumers.org/ge-free.cfm

 

[Icu4dzs]

What does race have to do with anything? And I am sure as hell not going to pop out more kids to "help" No, actually, it is Caucasian women that are having fewer children, the statistics are out there - somewhere, I'll find them if you want. I get Trim's point, but it's not something that anything can be 'done' about. I too lament the decision to have everyone in the workforce leaving the child rearing to others - it isn't good for the children, it isn't good for families, and I'm speaking for the viewpoint of a former working mother, it's damned hard on the women. But that's what happened when they decided to push us into full-blown consumerism, the only way to keep that engine going was to have two incomes, so you could keep up with the credit card payments and the inflated mortgage payments, while accumulating all kinds of 'stuff'. Then there's the mortgage mess, that's a whole 'nother rant. Obviously, this has been a more active discussion than others I have seen. and OBVIOUSLY, I don't know how to do the quote thing like you folks do but I will stand by what I said. Why do I know this? Well I'm one of the folks that stands at the end of the bed when the "kid is being popped out". No one suggests you should have more children, and in particular no more than you can handle/afford to support/educate, but you would be well served to educate yourself on the truth/facts. Reinbeau is correct and since she offered to publish the statistics, I think it would benefit the members here to see exactly what the truth is.
It is interesting to note that folks who have spent their entire lives working and paying taxes into the treasury of the United States, are unable or unqualified to recieve assistance from the federal government, but folks who have contributed nothing to this country can come here and get everything they want for free for an indefinite period of time and never have to lift a finger or work a day to be "qualified" for it. I know single mothers here who if they work full time can not get assistance but if they work part time are "entitled" to some benefits while others, who do nothing and pay no taxes are "entitled" to a free ride on EVERYTHING.
The folks in Arizona are now embroiled in a shooting war despite what the media tells you with the influx of illegal aliens, some of whom are masquerading as Mexican nationals and are in fact, middle eastern insurgents. They come here and get welfare, medicaid and a whole slew of entitlements while hard working folks (such as yourselves in some cases) are NOT "entitled" to any assistance from our government despite the fact that your tax bill is paid.
If I had my way, your voter registration card would be your TAX RETURN. No taxes paid in, no vote. That would change our country back to a republic, not a free for all form of "democracy" where everyone comes here but does not contribute to the welfare of their neighbors.
YMMV
Trim

 

[Icu4dzs]

Wifezilla
Today 3:23 pm Diversity and decentralization

We only have 750,000 people in SDAK. We take care of ourselves here and do it well.
We have a lot of "diversity" but need a more decentralized approach. Unfortunately, there was a war fought over this very question in 1861 and the centralists won. Whether for good or not that is what happened.
Think the folks who lost are happy about it? Just go to Virginia and ask them. They will be happy to tell you what they think.