The wealth gap & other ills.... Warning: long and could make you sick

[Wildsky]

Ok - the issue is with the free economy? I guess the question I have then is, what is the option? Have the government set salary ranges for jobs? I just don't get what people think should happen here.

I get it, you just wanna argue - well go right ahead.

 

[hikerchick]

The biggest problem I see, is the top management earning WAY too much in salaries and bonus checks. And the hourly workers just barely scraping by.
Yes the top management might have a few extra brain cells, and might have gone to college for a couple more years, but really does that mean they get hundreds of thousands more than the person who didn't go to college, or only went for a year?

It doesn't make sense, the hourly workers work just as hard, if not harder for their tiny paycheck, you don't see them flying around the country first class and having everything paid for by the company!

(Our top management etc. are still giving themselves bonus checks, while at the same time they've decided to take 5 paid vacation days from each employee for 2010. For the top management, they don't need paid vacation time, if they don't feel like showing up to work, they dont' they "work from home" )

I work from home a lot too; and so does my manager. We both have to be able to show what we have produced offsite. Also, no one complains when management has to work until midnight, or all day Saturday and Sunday; or have to come in when they are supposed to be on vacation. Things hourly people never have to worry their pretty little heads about.

 

[hikerchick]

Ok - the issue is with the free economy? I guess the question I have then is, what is the option? Have the government set salary ranges for jobs? I just don't get what people think should happen here.

I get it, you just wanna argue - well go right ahead.

No - I want to know what you people want - you don't like the way things are- how would you fix it? To sit here and say it's not fair is a waste of time. If it is wrong, how would you make it right?

 

[me&thegals]

Things hourly people never have to worry their pretty little heads about.

Not sure how snottiness will help you get answers to your questions...

Hourly people have other things to worry their little heads about--like will they be one of the first employees cut when management makes cuts at work.

Or, how will they get childcare when management demands more hours at work than they originally agreed on.

Tell me, who in "the market" is okaying CEO salaries? I'm not. I don't know the answers, I just know when something doesn't seem right.

My family owns their own company. When times were good, it was great for them and great for their employees. They earned a lot and their employees got great bonuses. When times are tight, everyone has buckled down. My brother has cut his income in half (he has 3 young children) and my parents are not drawing a paycheck at all but living off of their 401K. And they would like to retire in about 10 years.

So, maybe that is my standard for "management." You make big bucks when EVERYbody is making big bucks. When the economy tanks, you cut your own paycheck as much as you possibly can while still surviving and keeping the company afloat until the economy turns back around.

 

[hikerchick]

Things hourly people never have to worry their pretty little heads about.

Not sure how snottiness will help you get answers to your questions...

Hourly people have other things to worry their little heads about--like will they be one of the first employees cut when management makes cuts at work.

Or, how will they get childcare when management demands more hours at work than they originally agreed on.

Tell me, who in "the market" is okaying CEO salaries? I'm not. I don't know the answers, I just know when something doesn't seem right.

My family owns their own company. When times were good, it was great for them and great for their employees. They earned a lot and their employees got great bonuses. When times are tight, everyone has buckled down. My brother has cut his income in half (he has 3 young children) and my parents are not drawing a paycheck at all but living off of their 401K. And they would like to retire in about 10 years.

So, maybe that is my standard for "management." You make big bucks when EVERYbody is making big bucks. When the economy tanks, you cut your own paycheck as much as you possibly can while still surviving and keeping the company afloat until the economy turns back around.

Yes- I thought that was what this thread was about - wasn't the whole point about how a highly paid person had his bonus cut? That is exactly what you are saying should happen. I am not saying that the salaries are right or fair- I am just saying that they wouldn't be able to command these salaries if the stockholders and BOD werent' willing to pay. Someone clearly thinks they add enough value. Pretty much anyone can take tickets at a movie theater or ring up purchases in a supermarket. Not everyone can run a multinational corporation. Hence, they can command high salaries. Do you really think they should cut their own salaries so someone else can have more? Would you cut your salary to help someone less fortunate than you? No matter how bad you think you have it, there is always someone worse off. What if people start looking to you to sacrifice what you have to supplement what they have?

I apologize if you think I am being snotty. It's just that I have one of those jobs where you end up working endless overtime without getting paid because I am salaried. I have had to give up holidays, vacations, weekends. So I get a little resentful when someone says that people like me "work at home" when they don't feel like coming to work. I am a single parent, sometimes I need to stay home for various reasons. But I work the entire time. Remarks that make it seem like people who work from home are just taking free time off are hurtful.

 

[On Our own]

OK This will be my last attempt.

Hikerchick NO ONE said we think it is not right for people to make more money than others. Some jobs are harder and more valued than others. But, some where along the line you completely missed how the system had become very very badly rigged to help some people while deliberately, and with forethought shafting others...

Look for example how now that your money has bailed out this guy's firm he is taking a huge chunk off the top. He is the one sucking off the government. He got corporate welfare.

We are sliding into socialism. Except it is socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor. We help the corporations and then defend them while they shaft us. Those are your tax dollars he's enjoying. That's your money. HE ran a multibillion dollar company into the ground taking a huge chunk of the economy with it. HE FAILED miserably. And yet the money was taken from your wallet and put into his.

You get angry when you see some poor person on welfare with a nice car: that ain't nothing on what these guys have gotten away with.

 

[hikerchick]

OK This will be my last attempt.

Hikerchick NO ONE said we think it is not right for people to make more money than others. Some jobs are harder and more valued than others. But, some where along the line you completely missed how the system had become very very badly rigged to help some people while deliberately, and with forethought shafting others...

Look for example how now that your money has bailed out this guy's firm he is taking a huge chunk off the top. He is the one sucking off the government. He got corporate welfare.

We are sliding into socialism. Except it is socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor. We help the corporations and then defend them while they shaft us. Those are your tax dollars he's enjoying. That's your money. HE ran a multibillion dollar company into the ground taking a huge chunk of the economy with it. HE FAILED miserably. And yet the money was taken from your wallet and put into his.

You get angry when you see some poor person on welfare with a nice car: that ain't nothing on what these guys have gotten away with.

Well I agree that what you described is not right; I just wonder what can be done about it?

And for the record, I don't get angry when I see poor people with nice cars. First of all, if they are driving a nice car, how can I tell they are poor and on welfare? I am not sure how people know these things unless you know the people personally; and I don't personally know anyone on welfare who drives a nice car. So, I don't stress about it.

I agree that corporate welfare is probably not the best way to go. I did not realize that was what we were talking about.

But unfairness lurks at all points along the spectrum, truly. At the company where I work, only hourly people got raises this year. Those of us on salary got nothing. Yet we are still expected to give up holidays and weekends for the company, while the hourly people get to go home at 4. And, I am going broke paying student loans for this privilege. Most of the hourly people don't have that burden.

Anywhere you look there are going to be people thinking that someone else is getting a better deal.

 

[me&thegals]

Yes- I thought that was what this thread was about - wasn't the whole point about how a highly paid person had his bonus cut?

No, the whole point was that the man was complaining about a $5 million job with a bonus cut to $98,000 in front of people without jobs or health insurance.

No matter how bad you think you have it, there is always someone worse off. What if people start looking to you to sacrifice what you have to supplement what they have?

I don't think I have it bad. I don't WANT any more!!!! Can you understand this?? I have ENOUGH. I KNOW there are people worse off. THEY are the ones I am feeling for, NOT myself!!! I try to sacrifice and help those I can before people come to me desperately.

It's just that I have one of those jobs where you end up working endless overtime without getting paid because I am salaried. I have had to give up holidays, vacations, weekends. So I get a little resentful when someone says that people like me "work at home" when they don't feel like coming to work. I am a single parent, sometimes I need to stay home for various reasons. But I work the entire time. Remarks that make it seem like people who work from home are just taking free time off are hurtful.

For the record, I personally never made comments about working from home. I myself work from home. I know how hard it is to work without childcare, to get things done when there are always other things that need to be done also. I have no criticism for those who work from home, something I have been doing for the past 10 years.

I think you are seeing this whole thread through the eyes of your own experiences. That's perfectly understandable, but it's preventing you from actually hearing what other people are saying here, no matter how many times it is repeated.

 

[Wildsky]

I think you are seeing this whole thread through the eyes of your own experiences. That's perfectly understandable, but it's preventing you from actually hearing what other people are saying here, no matter how many times it is repeated.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think hikerchick has taken something on this thread very personally for some reason.

And I was the one who made the working from home comment, because I have seen those type things happen with my own eyes, when a salaried person can't get child care they just don't show up to the office, or when they have a sick child the same thing, when an hourly worker can't make it to work because of a sick child, they have to go without a day's pay!

For the record, I work from home myself, because we moved away from the state where my company is based. My company kept me on as a "temporary measure" 2 1/2 years ago. I used to sit in the office and struggle with childcare when one was sick or there were daycare issues.

 

[FarmerChick]

hikerchick is trying to make a point also........she is saying that yes, you have the right to complain about this disparity in corporate salaries and workers salaries .........but she is also asking how to change it?

No one answers her.

Because WE CAN not change it. Change to this level will come slowly over the next century maybe.

No one is going to change salary base anytime soon in this country.
Or other countries for that matter.

It is what it is!!


Mega corps employs thousands or millions of people. Mega corps have many companies running within their business network. A CEO does deserve BIG money for their positions. A CEO keeps jobs alive for their workers. It is what a company is willing to pay.

Only step is---who can change that? Have the govt step in and set all salaries in this country. (I don't think so)




Understanding it is a gripe for many is one thing---changing it is a whole different ballgame.

Either deal with it or get out there and try to take real action to change it.

If a mega company has 1.6 million workers, do you want the CEO to cut his pay by $1.6 million and give each and every worker a $1 raise?


Of course there is fraud on EVERY level to the CEO taking a big bonus maybe not deserved to that level of pay---to the little employee stealing staplers and paperclips or monies from the company they work for.

Fraud and theft is not effected by salary base that I can see. Fraud is not in only CEO situations, fraud is down to the lowest salary worker at any company.



If you don't want big money and live like others want to live...fine.
Don't deny them the right to climb to the top and reach those salaries.



And cutting back CEO salaries by demand is not going to save this country at all.