An amazing quote.

[patandchickens]

There are tons of grants & scholarships that go unclaimed each & every yr, worth millions of $$'s. All these kids need to do is enter scholarships into a search engine & they get tons of hits.

Well, this is true, BUT one can't expect it to cover most of a person's college expenses, even though every little bit helps.

After seeing how a lot of grads around here have handled going to a university straight from HS I think all students should attend a communtiy college for at least 1 yr before moving on to a university

For those with real budgetary constraint I think this is an excellent idea. Two years even. I don't know why more people don't do it. There are often local four-year colleges that have well-worked-out transfer programs so that (with appropriate investigation beforehand) you can be certain that your credits will transfer in the way you're hoping. This route will not get you into med school (ok, there may be a rare exception somewhere, but you know) and community college classes aren't usually *as* good as regular college classes, BUT not to the point of being a huge difference, whereas tuition *can* be greatly different.

I still think that VASTLY too many people go to college in the first place, going there only because they need that sheepskin to apply for a whole lotta jobs where the actual college education they got is nearly, or totally, irrelevant. I don't know how that problem could possibly be solved - it is sort of chicken-and-egg - but it sure is a stupid situation, as it now stands, if you ask me.

Pat

 

[Homesteadmom]

 

[patandchickens]

I assume you are banging your head and thudding about me, but I don't know why.

If it's about my saying too many people go to college, I stand by it. I think that only people who WANT TO go to college (for the fun of it, if they can afford that kind of fun -- perhaps I should clarify I mean *intellectual* fun, not frat parties, when I say college is fun -- or because you truly require that sort of education for what they want to do in life) should go. It is just stupid to make so many people go so far in debt, and do all that work and spend all that time, just so they can essentially get a pass to apply for jobs. WAY too many jobs "require" a college education, not because you actually need it to learn to do the job well, but just because with so many applicants having college degrees they've decided they'll only look at applications from people with college degrees.

Pat

 

[Homesteadmom]

I agree that there are people who go to school for nothing really just that everyone else is going & that employers are requiring the degree.

why would you think that community college classes aren't *as* good as a university course? Some are even better. Just because it is not on the level of a university community colleges can offer a very vast amt of classes & they are often smaller & easier to get with the professor if you are having trouble. When I took chemistry, the professor worked over & over one night to get everyone to understand a formula & when all but 4 people had it he moved on & had them make appt's with him to have private tutroing sessions till they got it. Never heard of a university prof doing that!!!

Education is very important for everyone, but it does not neccassarily mean a college education is for everyone. We do need people to dig ditches & run street cleaners & pick up the garbage & I know there are a slew of other jobs out there that do not require a degree to do them a like a retail clerk & bagger. But if a person chooses to go to school then they should be allowed to go & study whatever the heck they want too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[patandchickens]

why would you think that community college classes aren't *as* good as a university course? Some are even better. Just because it is not on the level of a university community colleges can offer a very vast amt of classes & they are often smaller & easier to get with the professor if you are having trouble.

Well, I've had an awful lot of students over the years, and I've done my share of reviewing syllabi to decide what community-college courses should transfer for credit to our college and what shouldn't, and have had lots of friends teaching at two year colleges.

Community-college courses (in biology, and basic sciences, anyhow, and I have reasonable basis to believe this is true of English and history as well) are pretty regularly less in-depth and less rigorous than their counterparts at a 4 year college. Even when the course *is* accepted as transferring as its counterpart at the 4 yr college. That is, they stick to more the basics of a subject and do not require as high performance from students to get a given grade.

It is not a huge difference (well ok sometimes it is , but not usually) and particularly for someone who really WANTS to learn the subject it does not pose too much of a problem... but that doesn't mean the difference doesn't exist.

And students transferring to 4 yr colleges from a 2 yr program (and remember, I *am* saying this is often a good idea for people to do!) pretty commonly go through an adjustment phase of getting up to speed with the slightly different sorts of expectations.

Really.

When I took chemistry, the professor worked over & over one night to get everyone to understand a formula & when all but 4 people had it he moved on & had them make appt's with him to have private tutroing sessions till they got it. Never heard of a university prof doing that!!!

Well, I have no idea why you haven't. It is NORMAL. I mean, professors have regular office hours during which students come in for help or just discussion -- which are often well-used by students -- and many (perhaps most, I don't know actual numbers) of us are more than happy to schedule appointments at other times as well, including review sessions before exams if particularly difficult material was covered. Heck, I used to give my students my home phone # and could count on, a couple times a semester, someone calling at 2 a.m. the night before an exam to say 'hey, I'm really sorry to bother you, but I am just TOTALLY not understanding my notes on how to calculate age-specific survivorship, can you help me out?'.

Students do need to have a bit more initiative sometimes at larger schools, since if you are in a 200-person introductory-level course nobody is going to come to YOU if you're floundering, and you may need to go thru TAs first if you want to schedule much time with the actual professor. Most college courses are not like that, though -- I would say a typical size for most courses, beyond the first year of a subject, would be between 10-60 students where I used to work. And it varies a lot among institutions -- you can usually *choose* whether to go to a school with larger or smaller classes.

Really truly,

Pat

 

[dacjohns]

It seems that a lot of people think that their education experiences are typical when in reality there may not be any such thing as typical.

I am seriously over-educated although it probably doesn't come through most of the time. I have attended about 15 institutes of higher learning; in class, extension, on line, and correspondence. None of them were the same. I had a class where I was the only student and the professor and I met when we could. I had the huge class in the lecture hall. I went to local junior (community) colleges and I went to a four "college" that turned into a "university" while I was there. In the four year schools I think all of my instructors were full fledged professors, I don't remember any TAs teaching the course. In the two year schools I would venture to say that I had instructors with qualifications ranging from job experience to doctorates with most of them probably having no more than a masters degree.

In my experience if you met the basic requirements you passed and with a little effort could get an A. As far as going in depth it depended on the student, not the instructor.

Junior colleges "typically" offer lower level general education courses that are not designed to meet requirements for a major course of study in a four year institution. I use the sciences such as chemistry or biology as an example. Note, I am not saying they only offer the lower level general education courses. I know many junior colleges offer courses where you get the basic education to go right into the job market, for instance coal mining, cosmetology, or nursing.

I took an online graduate level course that was a piece of cake. I put a lot more work into it than was required. The same goes for the independent study course where it was just me. I also have taken online courses where I had to work harder than if I had attended class in a building.

Bottom line: nothing is typical.

 

[sylvie]

I took a year at a community college before transferring to a 5 year college. My History of Western Civilization and English Literature credits from the community college weren't accepted for transfer by the 5 year college despite my 4 pt average. I had to take those again and they were much more complex and demanding than the community college classes. In my case I do have a comparison experience.

 

[Homesteadmom]

Pat, let me rephrase my comment so you understand what I meant better. My Chem prof, spent over an hour of the classes 2 1/2 hr limit that one night going over & over one formula & that was what I was referring to as 4-yr profs not doing. Granted I know community colleges offer some lower level courses, you have to check them out before you sign up if you want to transfer them to another school. All the courses I took were not a walk in the park(of course I only took higher level classes) except maybe PE. Most of the profs were from 4 yr schools & decided to not be in such a big class or rat race anymore. English was a very hard class as our prof was extremely critical & tough. It was hard for anyone to get an A in his class. It really all depends on how much above the "required" curriculum a instructor decides to teach too. There are lazy instructors at all levels of higher education. You could take the same course taught by 2 different instructors at the same college & I would almost garantee you they would not teach the exact same info or level.
As dac said nothing really is a typical situation, as everyone is different & everyone would all get something different out of the same course. Oh I will admit there were classes that were extremely fun to go to but we also worked at them like my psych class we had a ball in it, I got a B(3 points away from an A) & there were a few that barely passed & a couple that didn't. But the instructor made it fun. Sociology on the other hand I had a very hardnosed anti-christian racist insructor(he was black) & had to take it twice to pass it as the first time I was only 18 & let him intimidate me. When I went back a few yrs later & retook it I knew how he was & was determined not to let him intimidare me & he did not this time around. But he did remember me & asked me if I was still a christian when the class started & he would refer to me a lot & ask how I felt about certain situations as a christian. At first I was uncomfortable with that, but then I looked at it as a great opportunity & became a lot more confident in speaking my opinion & standing up for my feelings & beliefs(maybe thats why my hubby at the time & I started fighting more, LOL-if the prof was still alive I should go thank him).
Ok getting off my soapbox & moving on.

 

[patandchickens]

My Chem prof, spent over an hour of the classes 2 1/2 hr limit that one night going over & over one formula & that was what I was referring to as 4-yr profs not doing.

Well, it certainly does happen, and I have done similar things myself on a number of occasions (especially in labs). <shrug> As you say, hard to generalize.

I think the biggest factor in determining whether a student gets good value out of their classes, be they at a community college or 4 yr institution, is how much the student puts INTO them. It sounds like you got pretty good value


Pat

 

[Homesteadmom]

I think we get as much out of things in life as we put into them. You work hard at anything & you will get rewarded.
I like you think it is sad that so many people have college degrees & do not work in that field. Here in the US the last satistic I heard was 67% of college grads do not work in their field of education. All employers care about is a college degree, they do not care what it is in usually.