Joel Salatin...a messy discussion

[noobiechickenlady]

Actually, I wasn't thinking of you at all, Merle. I don't doubt for a minute that there are strong willed women who saw on his site the lack of female opportunities & dropped him like a hot frying pan.

I put it in quotes because I don't think he is sexist & backward.

No harm meant, sorry if it came across that way

 

[Blackbird]

Actually, I wasn't thinking of you at all, Merle. I don't doubt for a minute that there are strong willed women who saw on his site the lack of female opportunities & dropped him like a hot frying pan.

I put it in quotes because I don't think he is sexist & backward.

No harm meant, sorry if it came across that way

Either that or thrown the frying pan AT him.

 

[noobiechickenlady]

Hehehe, with the hot grits still in it!

 

[Buster]

perhaps you guys are all a lot more understanding and forgiving than me, but i'm still not completely satisfied.

if the issue is one of accommodations, how does he take women on for the summer sessions? accommodations don't come and go with the seasons, at least not around here.

i never doubted that the man loved his family. and i don't think he thinks all women are useless. AND he can, of course, do whatever the heck he likes with his own farm. but i still can't help but feel like this kind of policy does an injustice to women farmers. if he truly believes that a woman can manage hundreds of acres alone (which he must if he let her run a part of his land) why doesn't he see the value in having year-long female apprentices? and, conversely, how does he not see the harm in NOT having year-long female apprentices?

Fact is, he doesn't take woman apprentices because he doesn't have the accommodations for it. I'm sure special arrangements are made for the summer interns that would be difficult to sustain during the off season. He only needs two apprentices during that off-season because it is the OFF-SEASON. There is just not as much to do during that period. In case you hadn't caught the point of the Slow Food movement, food does have its seasons, and that includes the animals on a farm like Polyface.

During the regular season, things are much different on Polyface. There is a lot of work that needs to be done, sun up to sun down, and it takes more than two interns and the family to accomplish it. So, he makes other arrangements for the extra interns, which in turn pays for itself by having the extra hands to assist with the extra work.

It isn't rocket science.

I don't know what your deal is. I don't think there is anything Grady or Salatin could say that would satisfy you. You have had a chip on your shoulder about Salatin ever since you found out he wasn't a liberal, even before you heard a word out of his mouth or read a single thing he wrote.

I refer back to our conversation on BYC, and repeat, Joel Salatin and conservative (religiously and politically) and libertarian folks like him are one of the best things to happen to the sustainable agriculture movement. We can't be written off as just a bunch of hippy back-to-landers. It isn't about politics. It is about the right thing.

Y'all asked a question, and Grady (who actually KNOWS the man) answered it. That should be the end of the discussion.

 

[Occamstazer]

Yeep!
Let's all stop, take a deep breath, and eat a cookie

It's a *good thing* that the real food movement crosses lines of personal politics or whatever you want to call it. This should be something we can all find common ground on, rather than forgetting the big picture and getting divisive. I'm sorry if my first post was a little heated, now everybody group hug

 

[noobiechickenlady]

Yeep!
Let's all stop, take a deep breath, and eat a cookie

It's a *good thing* that the real food movement crosses lines of personal politics or whatever you want to call it. This should be something we can all find common ground on, rather than forgetting the big picture and getting divisive. I'm sorry if my first post was a little heated, now everybody group hug

 

[Blackbird]

If it isn't about politics, as you say, then please, lets not bring politics into it.


I'll take one of those cookies, please?

 

[bibliophile birds]

In case you hadn't caught the point of the Slow Food movement, food does have its seasons, and that includes the animals on a farm like Polyface.

yes, i'm aware of how things work on a farm. i've lived on one for most of my 27 years. i'm not arguing that he should have 50 apprentices year round. i'm just suggesting that if he can accommodate women in the summer, why would it be so difficult for one of the 2 apprentices that stay on year round be a woman?

I don't know what your deal is. I don't think there is anything Grady or Salatin could say that would satisfy you. You have had a chip on your shoulder about Salatin ever since you found out he wasn't a liberal, even before you heard a word out of his mouth or read a single thing he wrote.

I refer back to our conversation on BYC, and repeat, Joel Salatin and conservative (religiously and politically) and libertarian folks like him are one of the best things to happen to the sustainable agriculture movement. We can't be written off as just a bunch of hippy back-to-landers. It isn't about politics. It is about the right thing.

i honestly don't have a chip on my shoulder about him. i had ACTUALLY already read Pastured Poultry Profits (and thought it was brilliant) before i ever mentioned a word about him on any forum. it was while i was researching for more to read by him that i came across what, for me, was a bothering bit of information. i went to the place where i knew i could get more information, here and BYC, because i wanted honest opinions that i trusted. and i listened to them.

as i said in the forum you reference (and several other places), i think the man is extremely knowledgeable and i won't stop taking his information for what it is. but i don't have to like his politics/beliefs to think his information is sound and valuable. that's fine. i've not suggested that anyone avoid his books because of it. as i said in my first post in this thread, i reference him often. and it certainly isn't because i hate conservatives: i'm the lone liberal in a family of conservative politicians.

thinking his information is great and that he's more than welcome to believe as he does does not equal thinking everything he does is perfect. that's the kind of blind devotion that got us into this whole industrial mess in the first place. if we can't question things about the people leading this movement then we are in deep trouble.

i do appreciate that his beliefs, and those of many of his apprentices, would make men and women living in close quarters a no-no. that is completely understandable. i've worked in Islamic countries enough to understand separation of the sexes and it's importance. my question after Grady so kindly shared was how could he do one and not the other? the image that creates is not a good one. Joel Salatin might not care about that image, but those of us who are trying to do what he's done do care.

 

[freemotion]

I don't think to many of us here on this forum are "blindly" devoted to anyone! We are almost all thinkers, and we can take what we need and discard what we disagree with.

I am a strong and vocal woman who can outwork most people, but when I was hiring stable help, I hired the most dependable workers. It was mostly the boys and young men. There was one woman who could work circles around the guys, but most of the women and girls ultimately chatted too much and worked more slowly. Just my experience with ten years of managing a show and breeding stable.

 

[freemotion]

Let me add that those statistics would likely change if everyone here were applying for a job! We represent a pool of hard workers dedicated to everything outdoors, etc. We are not a cross-section of the bulk of the population, that is for sure.

We're special!