Moved away from Mainstream (medicine)

[ScottyG]

Can't speak for miss_theNorth, but I would say that

"I think its ironic when people brag about how they feed their kids organically, and raise them in a "green" environment but will gladly hold them down while they are injected with proven neurotoxins."

and

"Oh and I am glad you feel safe with "99.9 percent" of mercury removed from your child's vaccines.
A little mercury certainly never hurt anyone."

do not sound all that accepting and friendly to ME.


Pat

No one was directing anything at her and I think you know that.
In fact, I know that you know that I was responding directly to a comment made by someone else and it was not directed at anyone else but that person.

Okay, so it's all right then to refer to ME as someone who willfully hurts my children with neurotoxins? So your comment, you say, was not directed at anyone but me. Well, great. I'm glad you've decided I'm willfully poisoning my child. That's very welcoming of you.

Sorry for my bitterness. But I honestly didn't mean to start anything here. This all began when I chose to add to our discussion of vaccines that there are concerns other than those of your own child, those of community and "herd" immunity. I believe this, and it's part of the topic being discussed, so I contributed my thoughts on it. You might not agree with those, as Wildsky has said, and I'm okay with that. You'll notice I didn't ever try to talk Wildsky (or you) out of the decision not to immunize. That decision is not mine to make. I am just defending my own decisions.

But I got dragged way further into this because it stopped being about whether or not to vaccinate. I think vaccines are a good idea, and you think they are a bad one. Fine. No problem. I'm sure I disagree with all kinds of people here on all kinds of issues. There's no one in the world I agree with on everything, not even my wife. Everybody has different opinions, and a right to them. You have some evidence backing up your opinion, and I have some evidence backing up mine. I'm happy to leave this unresolved... it's not like I thought one of us was going to convince the other one to change anyway.

But when you accuse me of actively poisoning my child (and therefore being a bad parent), it gets mighty personal, and I don't just let things like that sit. So I got dragged into this argument against my better judgement and now I think I'll actually let it go for real this time. I just don't want to be this mad.

 

[Beekissed]

I'm with Ann on this one! Well, it helps that she has this real big club and killer bees at her disposal...

But, really, the "to or not to" when dealing with children is always a passionate discussion topic. I like to hear everyone's opinion, as mine are not all set in stone (contrary to what it may seem ) and something I learn here may influence my thoughts about the subject.

I think everyone has done a real good job at keeping this down to a dull roar and I applaud you all!

I think there will always be these kind of differences when someone dares to not follow a prescribed course of action that is commonly accepted in society. I've been thought to be weird all my life for not following the crowd. I don't do it just to be contrary, by all means! Noone wants to be that lonely! Its just that some things are so important to us that we push the envelope on commonly held beliefs and information presented for the public consumption. We don't take things at face value because the majority says its good for you....we must know the whys? the proof? the "so, if this is good, why thens?"....its our nature, we were born this way and its not bad. Just different. We are the "Show Me" people.

Others feel it is safer to follow the accumulation of years of medical research and the more commonly accepted facts presented by this research. These are the "All these educated people can't be wrong" people.

The need to assert one's point of view is so strong in some people (I tend to be one of them) that its hard to back down and say, "Okay, lets agree to disagree." Or even, "Okay, I may be wrong to you but it's right for me and my family". Whatever it takes to discuss these things and still keep a clear head for each other's feelings is what is needed for these topics.

I, for one, am glad that we can do this on this forum...and, if we cannot, at least say, "Sorry, I was out of line when I said this....." :coolsun

 

[FarmerChick]

ScottyG
your posts were a voice of reason to me thru the thread

 

[reinbeau]

Enough.

Beekissed has typed volumes above.

Do you guys really want to make this be the first thread I have had to lock?

Post facts, personal experiences, etc., and when replying, omit the sarcasm, keep in mind we're all in this boat together - and this thread will stay open.

 

[miss_thenorth]

And I was thinking we might just have got a mod in the nick of time. anyhoo, I'm done with this thread.

 

[Wildsky]

I really don't want this thread to be locked.

Lets talk something else and I will edit the title.

Who treats illness etc. with herbs or ess. oils and such - I ALWAYS wanted to learn more about that. I've used homeopathics a bit in the past with good success.

 

[FarmerChick]

Wildsky
just start a new thread about herbs and natural remedies....we have a section for natural remedies which has great info. in the thread already.

 

[miss_thenorth]

I really don't want this thread to be locked.

Lets talk something else and I will edit the title.

Who treats illness etc. with herbs or ess. oils and such - I ALWAYS wanted to learn more about that. I've used homeopathics a bit in the past with good success.

Ok, if you want to take this in a different direction, I will play nice.

My kids, 10 and 12. are rarely sick. My dd took antibiotics for the first time this past spring, for a high fever that she just couldn't shake. I think she has only been tot the doctor for well baby checkups(she's the 10 yo.)

My son acquired asthma when we moved to good ole sw Ont--to windsor--smog capital of canada. before that, he had only been to the doctor once (other than as a baby) we haven't done homeopaths or any thing else/bc there was no need. I try to use natural remedies as much as possible for whatever ails. fortunately, other than colds we haven't had to treat much. I am not opposed to naturopaths, but the only thing I don't understand, is--if it is natural, whya re there so many pills involved. Me, I'd rather make it from natural substances myself.

I have made poultices, my cough syrups are cidervinegar, honey, ginger, and cayenne pepper. Pain relievers have been given in my house rarely, but my first option is to sleep it off, and in some instances a very hot bath. I can say that we are fortunate that my kids are rarely sick, don't know exactly what route I would take if we had anything severe to deal with. I don't know about in the states, b/c alot of you have to pay for health insurance, but here in Ontario, I find alot of people run to the doctor for a runny nose etc. we go to the doctor only if absolutely needed.

Me, I'm a different story. I have medical issues. Mixed connective tissue disease, (raynauds phenomena, sjrogens RA, thyroid issues,) to name a few. i really only go to the doctor to get my prescriptions renewed and to have my bloodwork done.(and yearly physical) Plus I have a family history of bowel cancer and barrets syndrome. Hubby has only been to the doctor for an ailment once in the past 15 or so years, although he is required by work to get a yearly physical.

If you have home remedies for certain ailments--please share! I have a collection that I am always looking to add to. Maybe you can start a new thread with some of those posted, and I will look up some of mine.

 

[patandchickens]

I think Wildsky's point was to have an excuse to edit this title <vbg>.

I have to admit that I am not super big on natural/herbal/homeopathic remedies, myself, because I'm sorry but I'm just not the kind of person who will believe something just because someone tells me it with all sincerity NOR because it seemed to work a few times.

I do believe that there are likely to be quite a lot of 'alternative' type remedies that really truly work... I just do not see it as having been very well sorted out at this point in time and have little confidence in our ability to tell (most) sheep from goats.

I would =love= to see more good, doubleblind(where possible) properly-controlled "traditional" research studies on alternative medicine stuff. There has been a little done now, but not even scratched the surface.

I would also =love= to see that sort of studies also characterizing any side effects of alternative therapies. I'm sorry, but when people tell me that such-and-such can't possibly hurt ya b/c it's Natural, I don't believe that any more than I believe when some guy in a lab coat tells me that such-and-such can't possibly hurt ya b/c it's Modern Medicine

Til then my approach is basically prevention and letting the body heal itself. Obviously some problems are serious enough that this isn't enough, but, for a lot of things it IS.

I will say that I am convinced of the utility of things like honey for wounds, acupuncture if done by a skilled practitioner for at least some conditions, and chiropractic and massage work done by a skilled practitioner on horses (I've seen some pretty amazing things done with horses, with those two things, although also some pretty awful things done by incompetents). I'll take echinacea tea or supplements for an inconveniently-timed cold or suchlike. Moderately convinced about collagen-rich stock for arthritis (not from personal experience, I never seem to get around to trying it).

Looking forward to hearing others' experiences,

Pat

 

[ScottyG]

Yay! Fun topic. I have found great success (and there's some research to back them up) with a few herbal / homeopathic remedies.

I take "Cold FX," which is a very concentrated extract of 3 different ginsengs to ward off a cold if people around me have one. I was skeptical to begin, but it has indeed seemed to work for my family, and some of that may be placebo... but there have been a couple of studies that show it works to a statistically significant degree. I only wish it wasn't so expensive. Maybe I should try making my own ginseng extracts? Anybody ever done that sort of thing?

Also, the homeopathic flu remedy "oscillococcinum" (or something like that, spelling?) works reasonably well at shortening the length of a flu, and considering there's really no formal-medicine way to do that, I'm all for it. Again, too expensive. But good.

This isn't super-applicable to most of y'all, but I use a baby product called "gum-o-mile oil" (by Herbs For Kids) for my baby's teething problems. It actually works much better than the Orajel. It's got clove oil (for numbing), willow bark extract (for pain relief) and chamomile (for general soothing properties). It totally always works, and better than the "real" stuff too.

Small things I also use: Fennel tea to help digestion after a meal. Sweetened ginger tea for an upset stomach. Chicken soup! These aren't very powerful remedies, but ones that taste very good and definitely have some small but pleasant effects on the problem.