Obama finally called them out

[FarmerChick]

Don't shut down is the key.

Key is to move forward!!

That is what he is saying. Do not go backward.

The "little Republican" address after made 4 key points, all of which is NOT ENOUGH for any useful changes.

We need big changes. We need them NOW.

And if we can't put up with a little inconvenience in our lives about the new changes, then everyone deserves nothing!!!

No it will not limit tests so you will die. Heck, tests are already being denied from insurance companies when they deem fit.

It will throw the insurance industry into being competitive and not have a controlling force over the citizens.

If people could see that some change must be made, without giving in or giving up too much, then it must be done. AND DONE NOW!

This health care in the US is horrific. Like he said, we are a wealthy, smart nation with our character slipping into the toilet because NO ONE is addressing and changing the true problem. Healthcare must be changed and changed NOW.

NO ONE has come up wtih the ideal solution for everyone. It can't be done, but heck, get health care out to people that don't have any---to the middle class American who won't go into catastrophic debt over bypass surgery and tests and a fight for life with cancer.

I don't understand anyone who won't back change. Change is hard, rough, debatable for everyone.....but we must change for the good of the nation. No change or standing still cause we can not agree on change is why this country is exactly where it is--in the ****hole!!

No it isn't only profit that drives innovation at all. Many a professional in their field are passionate about their life's work. While profit is huge, just cause there is no "monster" profit as before, just minimal profit, (still profit), the work will continue!! many an inventor works with no profit in mind also.


small points of fear will run around all the time to stop all change. grasp at any small remark to instill fear to make no change.

stop the change and a country dies, literally citizen by citizen.

 

[reinbeau]

There was absolutely no substance offered last night, just more promises. How is this going to be paid for? Why aren't the reforms of all the misuse and spending he's talking about being dealt with first, now, why do we have to pass his bill before those things can be dealt with? Because trust me, they won't be dealt with at all, it'll just keep going, now with the 'law' behind them, and it will get nothing but worse. Plus the rationing....I had enough trouble getting 'fixed' when I had the Lyme disease, it almost killed me. Literally. I almost died in July. If they had sent me back to a 'specialist' that I was allowed to go to in, maybe, six months, I would have been dead (no doubt some might think that's a good idea). If rationing were in place that's what would have happened. Sorry, I'm not for it.

Fix what we have, and it isn't all that bad, and then move forward. You can't build what he wants built on no foundation - think mortgage crisis here.

 

[me&thegals]

There weren't many details because that is Congress's job. His job is to motivate them and the country and get the idea out there that doing nothing is not an option.

He talked about cutting costs through cleaning up healthcare. He talked about huge companies (Wal-Mart, anyone?) contributing to their employee's healtcare premiums rather than paying employees so badly that they end up on Medicare (huge savings right there in taxes!). He talked about drug companies with lots of new insured customers paying more taxes because of those new customers.

I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding Lyme, although it sounds horribly scary. I think healthcare can be great in America and it can really suck. I imagine it's hugely a product of where you are, what company you are under, who your personal physicians are.

"Rationing" is a scary word. All you right-wing folks speak all the time about balancing budgets and not hemorrhaging $ out for things you can't afford. I guess it's more personal when it comes to healthcare.

As for "it's not that bad," you just said you almost died under the current healthcare system, Reinbeau. My parents' business was already struggling before the recession hit because of exorbitant healthcare costs. Almost 1/4 of my income goes to healthcare premiums, and that is with my employer paying the other 75%!!! My premiums are not taxed. Imagine how much more I could contribute in taxes (not saying this is what I want, but we're talking about paying for healthcare plans here) if my nontaxed premium amount went down significantly and became taxable income instead.

I didn't hear Obama say he had ALL the answers. I heard him say that there were some things we could all agree on:

1. We need healthcare.
2. Those of us with it need to feel secure in it, that we won't get dropped if we get sick.
3. I forgot the rest Can anyone help me?

Now it is up to Congress to work their butts off and get something reasonable and workable on the table.

If Republicans choose to make this political, they will need some serious help come next election cycle.

 

[reinbeau]

There weren't many details because that is Congress's job. His job is to motivate them and the country and get the idea out there that doing nothing is not an option.

Where is the plan? Are we supposed to pass something, once again, that no one has read, no one has studied, no one has debated? Where is the plan. Complete. Before it's passed.

He talked about cutting costs through cleaning up healthcare. He talked about huge companies (Wal-Mart, anyone?) contributing to their employee's healtcare premiums rather than paying employees so badly that they end up on Medicare (huge savings right there in taxes!). He talked about drug companies with lots of new insured customers paying more taxes because of those new customers.

There are plenty of employers out there dealing with health care costs. What happens when it's cheaper for them to just pay the fine than to continue their employees good, private plan? I'll tell you what, the good private plans go away, and the government runs all healthcare.

snip of something that I can't discuss here. My feelings are too raw on the matter.

"Rationing" is a scary word. All you right-wing folks speak all the time about balancing budgets and not hemorrhaging $ out for things you can't afford. I guess it's more personal when it comes to healthcare.

The phrase 'All you right-wing' isn't really made any more palliative by using the term 'folks'. As for balancing budgets, just where do you think more and more money is supposed to come from? Print it up? Borrow more from great places like China?

As for "it's not that bad," you just said you almost died under the current healthcare system, Reinbeau.

NO kidding. Because it was Lyme, a very difficult to diagnose disease when the symptoms are all over the board. Under a different scenario, the source of the meningitis might never have been discovered and treated. It isn't the system that was the problem, it was the disease. Thankfully, due to the excellent medical facilities here in Massachusetts, it was found and cured. By theway, anyone off the street would have had the same treatment here, even before the great Mitt's healthcare plan was passed. It's the law here already, no one is turned away. Costly, not the best, but good enough to save plenty of lives.

My parents' business was already struggling before the recession hit because of exorbitant healthcare costs. Almost 1/4 of my income goes to healthcare premiums, and that is with my employer paying the other 75%!!! My premiums are not taxed. Imagine how much more I could contribute in taxes (not saying this is what I want, but we're talking about paying for healthcare plans here) if my nontaxed premium amount went down significantly and became taxable income instead.

We pay a lot for insurance, too, and I don't believe for a minute that premiums should be taxed! But again, just where do these lower costs come from without reforms first? The dollars just don't add up, and yes, it does come down to dollars, as you've described above.

I didn't hear Obama say he had ALL the answers. I heard him say that there were some things we could all agree on:

1. We need healthcare.
2. Those of us with it need to feel secure in it, that we won't get dropped if we get sick.
3. I forgot the rest Can anyone help me?

Now it is up to Congress to work their butts off and get something reasonable and workable on the table.

If Republicans choose to make this political, they will need some serious help come next election cycle.

Oh, please, the Republicans aren't the only one making this political - you're doing the same thing here with your 'right-wing' comments and calling out the Republicans!

Of course we need health care. But we need a solid foundation on which to build a system. I also agree that insurance companies right now are crooked card dealers, because that's all insurance is, it's legalized gambling, and they, as dealers, can change the cards whenever they want. That has to stop. We need tort reform, but do we expect the idiots in Washington, who are mostly lawyers, to cut out the heart of a huge part of the legal industry? No, not one of them, on the left or right, D or R, is really pushing for it because of the legal lobby!

As I've said before, I am familiar with risk management and medical malpractice. I know about defensive medicine. It's costly. It's a huge part of what's driving health care through the roof. It needs to be fixed. There was a plan to cap lawsuits at $250K. That's ridiculous, but $85 million awards (as punitive damages) is just as ridiculous.

Fix the fraud that's there already, don't make an even huger system to let things get lost in!

No one of us 'right wing folks' thinks this is a good way to be, but many of us want it fixed the proper way, not in a way that just creates an even larger mess than what we have now.

 

[Big Daddy]

What's this rationing BS? I thought he spelled it out real simple. If you have insurance you can keep it. So If your current company rations I guess you have rationing. If there is a public option, the companies involved will have better coverage than most plans currently on the open market have. He said they only expect aout 5% of the public to use the public option. There won't be any rationing. I guess he should have covered that with all the other lies those guys that didn't clap have been spreading.

By the way the guy from SC with the big mouth did apologize. There are rules to be followed after all.

 

[reinbeau]

There will be no more open market. When companies who provide healthcare figure out it's cheaper to pay the 8% penalty per employee they will cancel their plans. It's that simple.

The guy from SC spoke from his heart. There are rules, of course, but he called it how he saw it. Of course he apologized - and he won't see another term, despite it.

 

[FarmerChick]

Emotion got the better of that Rep. He apologized but also it hurt them. It just showed extremely poor judgement on blurting out You Lie during a televised Pres speech. But that is over.......it doesn't concern health care truly---if anything, it helped Obama in the end.

Ann I don't understand this part you typed:
There will be no more open market. When companies who provide healthcare figure out it's cheaper to pay the 8% penalty per employee they will cancel their plans. It's that simple.

_________________
Companies with over X amt. of employees who provide heathcare ARE going to be legally REQUIRED to carry healthcare. They can not cancel. Only SMALL business owners, about 95% might be exempt---and if that means those employees do not have coverage, they can shop the Insurance Exchange and get low cost good plans. That way if the employee has to hit the market for private ins....then it is at a fair price.

Did I answer that right in tune what you are meaning?

____________________

I can't afford Tony's COBRA at about 1200 per month if he lost his job.

When I shopped around for Tony to quit work and we wanted the farm to be our income, I could not do it. Because of healthcare. Because of healthcare. Because of healthcare---did I say that enough. That is the one thing stopping me---literally the one thing I am absolutely standing between us and our dreams.....because of healthcare ONLY and I am scared to death to be without coverage--and crappy coverage is offered to boot---even if I pay high prices, the Ins. companies can do whatever the hell they want with me!!!------- Possibility of being dropped at any moment, possibility of not getting coverage after that because of pre-existing conditions might mean we are in debt up to our eyes if the ins. cancels us for no good reason, then it is the price--heck best I could do was like $900 for the 3 of us!! I still can't afford that. (and that was the crappier plan with caps on limits for life with high deductibles etc.)

But if Tony wants to quit his job, under this plan I could shop for reasonable ins. under the Ins. Exchange. The US plan would make other companies have to be more competitive as I see it.





From my viewpoint, how I saw this---govt. will not take control.
Govt. will provide an option. With some requirements from the ins. companies and employers to comply.

that is not socialized one univeral care system for the nation with limits and rationing??



just throwing out thoughts...it is good to see how others see this definitely! cause we all are passionate about it, but might miss some of the finer points. and those can be important!!

 

[reinbeau]

Emotion got the better of that Rep. He apologized but also it hurt them. It just showed extremely poor judgement on blurting out You Lie during a televised Pres speech. But that is over.......it doesn't concern health care truly---if anything, it helped Obama in the end.

Ann I don't understand this part you typed:
There will be no more open market. When companies who provide healthcare figure out it's cheaper to pay the 8% penalty per employee they will cancel their plans. It's that simple.

_________________
Companies with over X amt. of employees who provide heathcare ARE going to be legally REQUIRED to carry healthcare. They can not cancel. Only SMALL business owners, about 95% might be exempt---and if that means those employees do not have coverage, they can shop the Insurance Exchange and get low cost good plans. That way if the employee has to hit the market for private ins....then it is at a fair price.


Did I answer that right in tune what you are meaning?

No, that's not true. Within three years (in the current House plan) all companies would be under the same rule. 8% penalty. What's cheaper?


____________________

I can't afford Tony's COBRA at about 1200 per month if he lost his job.

We couldn't afford the $1100 a month - but we did it, thank goodness, or we would have been buried in debt with my illness, it cost $30,000 all told.

When I shopped around for Tony to quit work and we wanted the farm to be our income, I could not do it. Because of healthcare. Possibility of being dropped at any moment, possibility of not getting coverage after that because of pre-existing conditions might mean we are in debt up to our eyes if the ins. cancels us for no good reason, then it is the price--heck best I could do was like $900 for the 3 of us!! I still can't afford that.
(and that was the crappier plan with caps on limits for life with high deductibles etc.)

But if Tony wants to quit his job, under this plan I could shop for reasonable ins. under the Ins. Exchange. The US plan would make other companies have to be more competitive as I see it.

Only if they allow insurance companies to truly compete across state lines - right now they can't.

From my viewpoint, how I saw this---govt. will not take control.
Govt. will provide an option. With some requirements from the ins. companies and employers to comply.

that is not socialized one univeral care system for the nation with limits and rationing??



just throwing out thoughts...it is good to see how others see this definitely! cause we all are passionate about it, but might miss some of the finer points. and those can be important!!

I'm just throwing out thoughts, too. There are realities that have to be dealt with first, though. We're talking about major debt to insure a relatively small number of people right now - fix that. Fix tort procedures. One thing I left out is get rid of all advertising by pharmaceutical companies! That's a whole 'nother rant! There are so many things to fix first before you can really guarantee health care for all. If we got rid of all the fraud, waste and fear (defensive medicine) the costs would come way down without nationalizing anything.

 

[FarmerChick]

OK--within 3 years everyone must comply regardless of amt. of employees.

BUT----didn't he say that the small companies would get tax credits to help them? so they could adhere to the plan?

OR----was that limited or something?


________________________

OMG Ann---did that illness cost almost $30K---on my! I would be like you...I would cough up the 1200 for Tony's coverage SOMEHOW---I sure understand that!!!

___________

yes the compete over the state lines.
But he said Albama (I think) had like only 1 top company being the insurer for citizens. If the US plan was low cost and decent, wouldn't that have to bring that one company down in price? Be more competitive instead of holding a state hostage? And if that company did not want to compete, it shut its doors, there is still coverage. The US plan to be purchased. Then of course, new companies would step into the state and offer competitive plans and battle for business. It would draw new ins. biz to the area.

________________

oh yea lets not start on drug companies.....I can't handle that!

________________
I have said from day one chatting on these threads...there is money if the fraud and waste was ATTACKED seriously.

BUT if we ONLY take a baby step....a baby step that "won't truly help insure everyone"---what can we do but make some major changes.

Cut fraud in healthcare, lower prices on tests and hosp. stays etc., --does that automatically mean LOWER premiums from the insurance companies???? They can still keep their plans unaffordable cause they can?




yea keep chatting --the more we know the better we are to truly understand what all parties are saying!

 

[Wifezilla]

I don't trust the government to handle health care. They are already running the Indian Health Service...poorly. If they can't do that with over 200 years of practice there is no logical reason to believe the rest of the populace will fare any better.

http://www.reznetnews.org/article/indian-health-cares-broken-promises-35270

Fix the IHS, Medicare, and Medicaid and THEN get back to me.

It's like having a teenager who wrecked your car, your husbands car and a friend's car coming to you and telling you deserves to have you buy him yet another vehicle since this time he PROMISES he wont wreck it. Yeahhhh...riiigghhhhhhtttttt