Obama finally called them out

[FarmerChick]

currently have been on a waiting list inorder to get a primary care doctor since June. I will not be able to get my first apointment with this doctor until January 7 (7 months). The doctor is new to my rural area and I havent been able to find one who will take on new patients locally. I have been using a local clinic, which is inadequate for things other routine care. This is before "government care". It will only get worse if they pass it!


VT--you are a very remote area right?
Your experiences are not the norm that I can see truly. My area is not like yours at all.

In very remote areas, people must take healthcare into acct. when moving there or maybe the town can help. Like in Alaska, they offer incentives to Drs.

If care is so important and to other remote people....maybe options to bring Drs. there is more important...a local issue.

Or move to where healthcare is readily available.


I don't see how a location experience you are having trouble with should be the basis for chopping down needed changes in the healthcare system. Many others live where healthcare is at their doorstep, no long waiting times to see a primary care physician, YET THEY CAN'T afford to go. EVER!

 

[me&thegals]

This is a problem my husband and I have all the time. He gets his news from right-wing fear-mongering radio hosts. I "made" him actually sit and listen to Obama's speech. He had to admit that it was reasonable, had what he felt were some good ideas, and addressed a lot of the boloney he had been hearing on the radio. OTOH, my husband also doesn't trust MY news sources.

If we don't trust one another's news sources, the arguments here get a bit ridiculous. I don't trust any news source where the person is obviously biased. If they can't even be smart enough or savvy enough to hide their biases, I don't care too much to hear what they have to say.

 

[FarmerChick]

If they can't even be smart enough or savvy enough to hide their biases, I don't care too much to hear what they have to say.


well said me&thgals

this is so true. when reading or listening people usually know quickly if
it is a "true" anaylsis from both sides....or a one sided freak show to bash the issue.

I like the Pro and Cons debate. Tell me what is truly on both sides. Then it is more informative and real decisions can be made.

 

[Big Daddy]

BigDaddy wrote: Just another good reason for single payer. If the docs are on the govt payroll you can bet the damages would be controlled. No multi million dollar pain and suffering settlements.

Wrong! The current bills that are running around on Capital Hill do not exclude malpractice suits against the doctors that are providing medical care under the "Government Plan". This is just one of the reasons why so many doctors are against much of what is being proposed! You will have a government desk jockey aproving or denying care that has been recomentded by a doctor. If there is a bad result because of it, the doctor is still responsible, and can be sued. The government can not be sued. You currently can sue your insurance company! Additionally, if you are denied doctor recomended care by your insurance company, you currently can take your case to the Insurance Commisioner in your state and in most cases, unless there are specific exclusions in your insurance contract, you will get the care your doctor recomends. If the government takes over health care,who will you plead your case to then?

For everyone who thinks health care is expensive now, wait until it is free! Government health care will cost you more than "just money", it can cost you your health or even your life. You currently can get care now, even if you are broke and living under a bridge. Yes, you might not be able to go to just any physician because you have a cold or even the flu, if you cant pay. You can, however go to the emergency room, even get a ride there in an ambulance, without the ability to pay dime one! It is an expensive proposition for the rest of us who have that ability to pay our bills, but it is a cheaper proposition than government health care.

We do not have enough doctors to be able to do what is being proposed. Additionally, polls have been taken that show up to 40% of doctors will close their practices and retire if reduced rates, more patients and more government red tape come to pass. Specialists have not spent 20 or more years being trained inorder to have the government drastically reduce their rates and make practicing medicine more difficult. Many specialists are humanitarians, providing free surgeries in third world countries, where the citizens cant just show up to an ER and get the care they need. We at least have access to some of the best care in the world. We just have to pay for it. If, the Lord forbid, I or my husband were to get some terrible disease that costs huge amounts of money for treatments and medicines, I would gladly go bankrupt and loose my house, cars, boat, and live in a shack, if it meant that we had gotten the care that was needed to save our life! Things mean nothing if you are an invalid or dead.

The currently proposed plans are OK if you are well, but if you are REALY SICK with a disease that will cost alot of money to cure or require cutting edge medicine, you may be out of luck! People will die waiting on a list for care or be denied life saving treatments because they are cutting edge or the results are not guarenteed. I realise that there are people who die now because of issues receiving the care they need. I think the last estimate I saw was around 14,000 each year. I believe this number would be much higher under a single payer system. My reason is that the large increase in people accessing the system and the inadequate numbers of doctors will automatically mean long waits to be seen by a primary care doctor. Primary care doctors will be gate keepers for specialists and testing, *who will also have long waits. Pray you dont get something that requires care quickly because there will be waiting lists to wait on all along the way, before you eventually get your care. This is not always condusive to good out comes!

*Note: When I say long waits, I do not mean 3 or 4 months it could be 6 to 8 months or longer, depending where you live and how many specialists are in your area! I currently have been on a waiting list inorder to get a primary care doctor since June. I will not be able to get my first apointment with this doctor until January 7 (7 months). The doctor is new to my rural area and I havent been able to find one who will take on new patients locally. I have been using a local clinic, which is inadequate for things other routine care. This is before "government care". It will only get worse if they pass it!

I find this posting rather amusing. Doctors get sued for malpractice for screwing up. If they recommend a procedure and your insurance company denies it, they can't be sued. That's ridiculous. Why would it be any different with the government? If your policy does not cover a procedure you will not get that procedure. An insurance policy is a contract. If your policy says that sex changes are not covered then sorry no sex change. If you need something that is covered and they won't do it then the insurance commissioner can help. The government will not have people that have no job other than to figure out ways to deny covered procedures. Currently that is standard in a lot of health insurance companies.

Try to find an insurance company that will pay for cutting edge technology. There aren't any. Most cutting edge technology is not approved by the FDA and can't be done here anyway. If you want to have cutting edge you need to go to Europe or India.

Doctors will quit. Yeah that's happening. I'm sure the real figures on that are probably closer to about 10% and includes the highly specialized doctors that have already made their millions. There's no shortage of specialty doctors. Let them go do private practice for the wealthy amongst us.

You give an example of having to wait 7 months to get a GP. Do you already have government health care? No, you are under the current system. If you want a shorter wait then I suggest you move back to civilization or just endure the situation you have.

Finally. So you think if somebody comes in to the ER with their arm chopped off that they won't treat them. It's not like that now and it wont be like that in the future. Right now people without insurance can have serious stuff handled at the ER. They won't do anything for cancer. If your in end stages they'll give you some morphine. Same with many other ailments. So no the ER is not a health plan.

 

[VT-Chicklit]

BigDaddy said You give an example of having to wait 7 months to get a GP. Do you already have government health care? No, you are under the current system. If you want a shorter wait then I suggest you move back to civilization or just endure the situation you have.

I did not say that I lived in a remote area, I said I lived in a rural area! Big difference. I have neighbors, and live in a small town. We have no doctors that practice in our town. The closest doctors practice is 30 miles away there is one there. The next town over from there (30 miles from my home), is a small hospital and a doctors group. That is where I am on a waiting list. In a 30 mile circumference around this small hospital there are around 20,000 people and 8 general practioners. These people, including my self, live in small towns. Much of our country is comprised of small towns. Where would you have us all move too?

 

[Big Daddy]

I live in a small town too. Population around 2000 spread out over about 300 square miles. We have a larger town population around 5000 spread out over around 500 sq miles 11 miles from us. Our GP is around 37 miles away. Part of living in a small town. You have to drive farther for a Home Depot and for just about anything including doctors. Maybe your area is kind of pricey and the population wouldn't support a GP office. GP's only make around 100k in most places. After taxes that doesn't buy much in a lot of places around the country. Not too many Marcus Welby's around anymore.

If we as a society would help with the cost of higher education there would be more GP's. They could provide the extra 8 years of higher education to become a doctor. Then the doctors could work at a reasonable rate for the govt for 4 years and repay the cost of their education. It might help attract more people that want to practice medicine instead of just make big bucks as brain surgeons.

 

[VT-Chicklit]

patandchickens said See, that is the sort of thing that makes it hard for me to take seriously the *rest* of what the guy says. (As with anyone who goes on like this).

The first bit is nothing but fearmongering, the second bit is clearly An Axe To Grind (nothing will be transferred to "the Obama administration" specifically -- the transfer being discussed would be to ANY administration, whoever happens to be running the country at the time... there is zero reason for the word Obama to appear in that phrase except to trade on some peoples' loathing)

I do not actualy lothe Pres Obama. I am sure he is a nice man whose views are just different than mine. I would be glad to have a beer with him and I would even pay!

You say this is fearmongering. . . it is not. This is what will happen over time because of this bill. You do not have to specificaly write that the private insurance will go away in a bill inorder for it to happen. You just have to make it impossible for them to compete. This is what they have done.

You do not have to specificaly write in the bill that care will be rationed inorder for that to happen. You just have to have a ratio of patients to doctors too large for the system to be able to handle and a drastically reduced fee structure that does not encourage people to come into the profession. Add to that less monnies for new equipment and hospitals and voila, rationed care in the form of long waits for service.

As for specifically the transfer being discussed would be to ANY administration, whoever happens to be running the country at the time . . . you are correct. I believe Obama was mentioned because it is his administration that is currently pushing this and they are the group that is in power now. If it was Bush, or some other Republican that was proposing this I would still fight it as strongly as I am with this administration. I do not understand why people think that it is only about the man. It is about his policies!

What those people who say we are having issues with this change to health care, or to the cap & trade Bill, or to the huge spending, or to card check or any other issue that we might have a problem with, dont understand or want to admit is . . . it is not specifically about Pres Obama. It is the policy that we disagree with. I do not personalize the policies. If he proposed as a fix to health care, real tort reform. . . if he made it possible for everyone to purchase insurance from what ever state they wanted and have it be valid in their own state. . . if he did things that would cause more people to become gerneral practioners and nurses like help pay their schooling, I would be for that type of ix to our health care system. I just dont think his ideas will be good for John ands Jand Q Public who will be the people who are hurt by his plan.

 

[VT-Chicklit]

BigDaddy said I like the forced abortions part too.

Michael Connelly does not claim that we will be forced to get abortions, he is talking about the bill forcing Doctors and Hospitals who do not perform abortion for consiencious reasons to have to perform them. This has been discussed with some doctors and hospitals that have these issues and many have said that if this is the case, they will no longer practice medicine and close, rather that compromise their principle on this issue! There are many hospitals that were started by religious orginazitions and still hold their philosophies today. They will stand by their principles.

 

[Blue Skys]

I have to point out that the constitution states it will promote the general welfare, not provide for it. I don't understand why it is ok to just disregard the document that this country was born from. America is unique in the fact that is was built on the premise of freedom from oppression and a government that was too big for it's britches. Look what is happening, the same thing our founding fathers were fleeing from is happening in this country. Don't tread on me!

I don't understand why a more simple solution might not be reached instead of going to the single payer government run healthcare. An all or nothing type of solution does not seem to be the way to go. The system is so flawed, why not chip away at the problems slowly. Work on collecting money owed by those who have not paid for services rendered (retail companies would call that stealing and would prosecute to the fullest extent of the law). Insurance companies receive discounts before paying for covered procedures, why would a self pay customer? I am not an expert in the medical field, but I have some common sense, and the single pay government run option is not the common sense solution to this gargantuine problem.

Regulate costs, demand payment for services rendered - set up reasonable payment plans. There will always be the exception with outrageous medical costs for a dibilitating deasease, but that is not the norm, well, not yet anyway.

Educate people on how they treat their bodies, what they eat, what they do during the day - get out and move and excercise. It's not rocket science.

I pay my bills, why do I need to pay everyone else's bills too?

 

[VT-Chicklit]

FarmerChick said [I like the Pro and Cons debate. Tell me what is truly on both sides. Then it is more informative and real decisions can be made.

/b]

Have you tried to read the bill? I have not been able to read all of it but I have read most of it! I do not want to take someone elses word on what is in it. I wanted to be able to form my own opinion and not be told "what is truly on both sides". It is not an easy read but by putting in a real effort, I was able to get the gist!