Obama will be speaking to all the school children of America this week

[reinbeau]

Fine, Reinbeau, I give up, I shall bow to your superior knowledge of what I mean, shall I -- also of my standards of right/wrong and what I am more or less likely to do in dire circumstances. What's the point in saying something if people can just "know" I mean something other than what those words actually say.

I am confused by "many also believe [Svengali] was a mind reader", as he was a totally fictional character in a novel, but, sure. I expect it is possible to know what an author means as opposed to writes, too. LOL

Over and out,

Pat, maybe not the first but surely not the *last* to know when something is no longer a discussion.

Oh for pete's sake, of course he's fictional, so is Sherlock Holmes, another fictional character everyone 'knows'. Is that horse dead yet?

My point is there are many people here who 'know' what others are thinking, and have made many generalizations about those 'thoughts'. I am not the only one! When you point a finger at someone, remember, there are three of your own fingers point back at you.

There is discussion in this thread, worthy discussion, it's just getting buried under people taking things far too personally and sweeping generalizations - before anyone calls me on it, I'm guilty of the same thing. This is the problem with political discussions, they always wander into dangerous territory, and feelings get hurt (mine are even hurt a bit here by another poster, but whatever. I'll get over it). So what (that's directed at me, and my slightly hurt feelings)? As long as no one is out to really cause hurt or harm, shake it off and jump back in.

 

[FarmerChick]

I just ran this thread by my DH, and he said even if we tried to take more money from the rich it wouldn't help. What you'll run into is them still being rich, and not having to pay, because they'll all move to the Bahmas with their money tucked safely into Swiss Bank accounts.

eta: I think he was being tongue in cheek, but who knows. He's a quirky sense of humor. He just thinks they'll pull all of their monies out of this country and put them somewhere else.

Your hubby is right.

A small increase in taxes from a small group of people (which is unfair to ask them for extra of course)----will not help a failing system.

An article I posted a few pages back....says just what your hubby says---

QUOTE:
But those same tax cuts also increased the ranks of those who end up owing no income tax - the majority of whom are not high income. The Tax Policy Center now estimates that after taking the tax breaks for which they're eligible, 47% of tax-filing households will have no federal income tax liability this year.

Many tax policy experts believe fundamental reform of the tax code -- a reform that simplifies the code and broadens the base of payers -- could be one step toward resolving long-term shortfalls.

Evasion is another concern experts raise when rates are hiked too high or too frequently. If high income taxpayers feel their tax burden too burdensome, they are more likely to seek out legitimate tax shelters. But also the higher rates go, Kies said, "the more it creates an atmosphere for cheating."

_____

YOU ARE DARN RIGHT IF THE TAXES are unbalanced and unfair that the ones with the money will pull out. They can and they will. I would!

 

[FarmerChick]

Me&thegals

So many of us could do more. But we do what we can and what we are comfortable with at the time in our lives.

Family comes first and our kids etc. These needs are top priority and rightly so!

I am not saying you should do more.....I am saying if something punches you in the gut, enough to make an impression and pass it on, then maybe it was meant to be addressed by you.....which you did!! You saw the man got offered a ride...from there it is his options to take it, leave it, or whatever. And I agree, no, not a ton of strange men in my car
I understand.

I am NOT DEFENDING the wealthy at all.

No one sees this!

I am defending a group of people's rights. Not to be unfairly taxed while the rest of the "unfortunates" require help.

Help is here. The govt offeres help. The govt is OUT OF MONEY!!!!!! Now we have to find out why they can not balance their budgets?
WHY WHY

do not attack a group to bail us out with cash and jump on their right to their earned income. take more from one group.

More money is not the answer to this problem....no matter where we "think" we can get our hands on it.

It is the spending from the govt. It is the govt pure and simple. and the more we find a scapegoat to pony up more money....the more control we give the govt over us. Honestly it is a vicious cycle.

Just one I believe truly!

Not hardly one person agreed with the bailout. OUR citizens hard earned money to bailout corps. who screwed up. What would be the difference if we over tax rich people. Do you think that small amt. of extra money can bailout a failing govt. spending system? It can't and won't.

OH---I didn't mean to imply you offer him cash for a car.
I meant, well if we had more cash for the poor programs, what would happen. Would the extra cash from the rich be distriburted by the govt. to buy this man a vehicle?
You know, tongue in cheek..LOL

 

[FarmerChick]

Political stuff is hard to get across.
We all see it so different and it has so many levels.
I think this thread stayed decent....it is mainly just words being twisted, or misunderstood, or a bit of my opinion being overwhelming as did others.

Passionate issues brings up passionate posts.

We are all adult enough to realize this!

I say we pat ourselves on the back. In other forums there would be bloodshed many posts back and it would be closed by now..LOL-LOL

 

[me&thegals]

Wow--This thread has REALLY strayed!! BTW, my kids did not see Obama's address. I asked the schools about it. Nothing cloak and dagger. It turns out it doesn't get TV reception (big bluffs in the way), and dial-up is not very conducive to a real-time Internet viewing

FC--I think we all get it that you are not a major wealth lover. What keeps being said over and over and over and over is this: Define reasonable taxation.

Maybe it's like one SC justice's definition of pornography: "I know it when I see it." Or maybe our life experiences and income levels will cause us to never agree.

My life experience and views have taught me that wealth gives people great power. Power protects its own. The poor are only protected by those who care enough to protect them. Wealthy people are just as worthy of my consideration and kindness as poor. However, they don't need me fighting in their corner. In fact, they may need reminding that the top 5% of them don't need something like 35% of the money pie in America (I did NOT check that stat, but it is something outrageous). Sorry--I don't care HOW hard you work as CEO. I don't believe ANY job is worth $50 million per year plus a golden parachute when you crash the company.

I don't believe any CEO needs to make about 35 times more than the lowest earner in the company (years ago it was more like a 1:7 ratio). Looks like sheer, obnoxious greed to me.

 

[FarmerChick]

I don't truly need to define reasonable taxation. Reasonable taxation exists in the present form to me. What I defend is not to hike one segment of the tax bracket because "the govt" needs money!

Have someone take almost 40% of your taxable income. My goodness...I am not there. I will never have to pay 40% of my taxable income. I would choke and spit if someone told me I had to pay 40%.

40% of income is ALOT of money!




Now answer me this---WHY does the govt. not have enough money to run simple programs for our country? Why is our debt THRU the roof and we will never dig out? Why?

How can a govt. be handed trillions of dollars and not be able to sufficiently run a country on these funds? A balanced budget? Yea who has seen one ever?





What I am saying is----more taxation will not fix anything. BUT if you want to tax more, then tax everyone!

The govt is in shambles. Spending is out of control.


Money runs the show for every single aspect of this country and almost every country on this earth. From the money spent to giving the poor a meal or a rent check, to the wealthiest person eating lobster in the Bahamas spreading his wealth around. Money is not common property by any means.

You are right---our life experiences will weigh heavy on these types of threads. So personal but we must look at the tax basis for this country and the obligation of the govt to spend the money it is receiving within reasonable means. So it is auditing a big business to me.

Audit of a big business that NO ONE will ever do or take responsibility for or even try for a long term fix. Short term, throw the money at the problem and worry about it later (that is what I see all the time)



You know it is actually fun seeing all the points of views out there. I am very interested in what people think. Granted I might not agree, but I want to see all posts nonetheless..LOL

 

[Quail_Antwerp]

So, FC, would it be fair to say what you're trying to say is the Government should stay within it's means, and not over extend itself.

Hmm...sounds a lot like we say about individuals, learn to live within ones means?

 

[sylvie]

A comment about the speech. It was good, even our conservative rag headlined that sentiment.

A comment on the wealthy. Although not within the topic of reasonable taxation, the tax abatements that the wealthy used to get that wealthy were on the backs of the local taxpayers. Our area had too many businesses come in on tax abatements, then when the time was up, cut and ran. The result was lost jobs, no recouping the taxes.

Tax abatement-a reduction or exemption from the taxes granted by a local government on a piece of real property for a specified time.

These were probably poorly crafted contracts with an element of desperation to entice businesses, but the end result here and in many municipalities countrywide was the same. Wealthy investors and owners made money while the citizens were left to shoulder the the financial deficit generated by the abatement process.

The statement that the wealthy have worked long hours to achieve their wealth could be changed to they worked smarter to achieve that wealth.

 

[FarmerChick]

OH My Gosh Quail

I just never thought of it in terms of our SS and what all us individuals are learning the hard way with credit card debt nowadays..LOL-LOL

yes you are correct in I am saying that.

BUT what I want now is for the govt. to justify all that spending?

Show me the books!!!!!

 

[FarmerChick]

OH MY
don't get me started on corporation taxes...please...I don't have the strength! HA HA

the wealthy personal income tax is not a corporations obligations etc.

so I have to keep them separate..LOL--for me to drag in corp. taxes in the post would be :/