patandchickens
Crazy Cat Lady
I am just at my wits end (as so often 
) and because on average y'all are more sensible and realistic than the people I could talk to in real life, plus which I do not have to encounter you day in day out in real life LOL, so I would really appreciate it if anyone can offer any advice here.
Basically my question is, how do you raise children to be decent upstanding people who behave responsibly and honestly and all that, when their father is, er, a very tall four-year-old and not a well-raised one at that.
"TMI" and "excessive-length" warning, but you need background:
This morning I answered the phone and after asking for my husband, the caller said "I'm the woman your husband ran into on the highway, and I have an estimate for the repairs". 'Scuse me? Apparently he was not watching where he was going on the 401 on Tuesday, walloped some woman's bumper off (fortunately no injuries and she was agreeable to keeping insurance company out of it), agreed to pay repair costs (I have no problem with that, btw), and DID NOT SAY ONE WORD ABOUT IT.
This is far from the first time this sort of thing has happened -- he usually does not do or say enough to lie or hide-the-truth *about*, but enough things have happened over the years to make it crystal clear that he does not mean one word he says and that he does not consider anything where I am not personally present-and-active to be any of my business. For heaven's sake, this is someone who, when you accidentally walk into the room and he has rather odd swedish nudie pics on the computer and as a surprised reaction say "WHAT is THAT?", will close the window and baldfacedly turn to me and say "a site about Lord of the Rings". Sheesh.
And aside from having a job and thus bringing in a paycheck, he does virtually nothing around the place, except feed the cats and mow the lawn and on Wednesday morning take the trash to the curb when he leaves for work. He has repeatedly said that he thinks it is unrealistic and ridiculous to expect him to do anything else, since he is not home during the day b/c of work and besides I'm better at everything anyhow so the person who's better at <whatever task> should do it. (He lived with his parents continuously from birth to our marriage when he was 43, and never had to do anything for himself)
And my gosh, you CANNOT have a conversation with him, he has zero interest in participating in either social or goal-oriented conversation, and if conversation seems to me necessary (like, we need to replace the car, which one should we buy?) it pretty much requires interrogation format, with ten minute gaps between replies and replies that seldom answer the question and are lawyerly and noncommittal.
Whether I should have realized this when I married him and it serves me right (although he presumably does not find being married to ME a particular picnic EITHER, it is his own silly fault and he has not lifted a finger to improve his lot so my sympathy is very limited), or how stupid I may have been, is no longer really the point. The point is:
Here I am. We have kids. My career does not exist around here and it's been too long to go back anyhow, and I cannot see doing the single-mom thing unless FORCED to.
Besides, when he is in a good mood he does play well with the kids, and I mean after all he is their DAD, *they* dont' know or care what a useless juvenile selfish butthead he may be. And it could be worse, he does not drink or use drugs or serious violence. He may well be lying about other things for all I know, but, <shrug>.
Contrary to what you might think from the above (remember I am writing this in an IRRITATED mood, having just found out about this $600+ bill from the unmentioned accident), things are not especially hostile in the house. We are not lovey-dovey most of the time but we are polite and cheerful.
But it is times liek this when I just throw my hands up in the air and think, with HIM as their example of what it means to be a grownup man, how are our sons supposed to grow up learning to be truthful, forthcoming, hardworking, responsible, etc?????
I have asked this of my husband a few times, and his response is that 1) it's totally different when *he* lies, or hurts someone and won't apologize, than when the kids do it, because it would be *unpleasant* for him to tell the truth or apologize so OBVIOUSLY he can't/shouldn't do it; 2) all this work and decisionmaking (large and tiny) in daily life are not something a person can handle on top of a 40 hr a wk job and besides I do them so what's the problem; and 3) they have ME as a role model to learn about honesty and apologies and work and so forth, so what's even the problem.
* blink *
I do not think things are likely to change. We have sunk thousands of dollars into totally pointless, sometimes counterproductive 'marital counselling", I am not leaving unless he does something actually BAD, this is just the way the situation IS.
As for me, it serves me right I guess, I'll live. But as for the kids... how do you raise sons to be GOOD PEOPLE, this way?
Sigh, any and all advice appreciated (even if it's "get a life", although a more specific version I can *implement* would be more helpful <g>)
Pat
) and because on average y'all are more sensible and realistic than the people I could talk to in real life, plus which I do not have to encounter you day in day out in real life LOL, so I would really appreciate it if anyone can offer any advice here. Basically my question is, how do you raise children to be decent upstanding people who behave responsibly and honestly and all that, when their father is, er, a very tall four-year-old and not a well-raised one at that.
"TMI" and "excessive-length" warning, but you need background:
This morning I answered the phone and after asking for my husband, the caller said "I'm the woman your husband ran into on the highway, and I have an estimate for the repairs". 'Scuse me? Apparently he was not watching where he was going on the 401 on Tuesday, walloped some woman's bumper off (fortunately no injuries and she was agreeable to keeping insurance company out of it), agreed to pay repair costs (I have no problem with that, btw), and DID NOT SAY ONE WORD ABOUT IT.
This is far from the first time this sort of thing has happened -- he usually does not do or say enough to lie or hide-the-truth *about*, but enough things have happened over the years to make it crystal clear that he does not mean one word he says and that he does not consider anything where I am not personally present-and-active to be any of my business. For heaven's sake, this is someone who, when you accidentally walk into the room and he has rather odd swedish nudie pics on the computer and as a surprised reaction say "WHAT is THAT?", will close the window and baldfacedly turn to me and say "a site about Lord of the Rings". Sheesh.
And aside from having a job and thus bringing in a paycheck, he does virtually nothing around the place, except feed the cats and mow the lawn and on Wednesday morning take the trash to the curb when he leaves for work. He has repeatedly said that he thinks it is unrealistic and ridiculous to expect him to do anything else, since he is not home during the day b/c of work and besides I'm better at everything anyhow so the person who's better at <whatever task> should do it. (He lived with his parents continuously from birth to our marriage when he was 43, and never had to do anything for himself)
And my gosh, you CANNOT have a conversation with him, he has zero interest in participating in either social or goal-oriented conversation, and if conversation seems to me necessary (like, we need to replace the car, which one should we buy?) it pretty much requires interrogation format, with ten minute gaps between replies and replies that seldom answer the question and are lawyerly and noncommittal.
Whether I should have realized this when I married him and it serves me right (although he presumably does not find being married to ME a particular picnic EITHER, it is his own silly fault and he has not lifted a finger to improve his lot so my sympathy is very limited), or how stupid I may have been, is no longer really the point. The point is:
Here I am. We have kids. My career does not exist around here and it's been too long to go back anyhow, and I cannot see doing the single-mom thing unless FORCED to.
Besides, when he is in a good mood he does play well with the kids, and I mean after all he is their DAD, *they* dont' know or care what a useless juvenile selfish butthead he may be. And it could be worse, he does not drink or use drugs or serious violence. He may well be lying about other things for all I know, but, <shrug>.
Contrary to what you might think from the above (remember I am writing this in an IRRITATED mood, having just found out about this $600+ bill from the unmentioned accident), things are not especially hostile in the house. We are not lovey-dovey most of the time but we are polite and cheerful.
But it is times liek this when I just throw my hands up in the air and think, with HIM as their example of what it means to be a grownup man, how are our sons supposed to grow up learning to be truthful, forthcoming, hardworking, responsible, etc?????
I have asked this of my husband a few times, and his response is that 1) it's totally different when *he* lies, or hurts someone and won't apologize, than when the kids do it, because it would be *unpleasant* for him to tell the truth or apologize so OBVIOUSLY he can't/shouldn't do it; 2) all this work and decisionmaking (large and tiny) in daily life are not something a person can handle on top of a 40 hr a wk job and besides I do them so what's the problem; and 3) they have ME as a role model to learn about honesty and apologies and work and so forth, so what's even the problem.
* blink *
I do not think things are likely to change. We have sunk thousands of dollars into totally pointless, sometimes counterproductive 'marital counselling", I am not leaving unless he does something actually BAD, this is just the way the situation IS.
As for me, it serves me right I guess, I'll live. But as for the kids... how do you raise sons to be GOOD PEOPLE, this way?
Sigh, any and all advice appreciated (even if it's "get a life", although a more specific version I can *implement* would be more helpful <g>)
Pat
) and her second (SHE finally got it right! 
) but this pretty darn good advice!!
I am pretty sure that my husband is a pathological liar, he just has not been officially diagnosed as such. I was raised to tell the truth, even if it is socially or otherwise inconvenient. My husband lies about the weirdest and most trivial things. 
Maybe our polar differences are why we are married (opposites attracting)? 
