Polyface Farm Tour~Salatin~My experience (pics on page 3).

[freemotion]

What I see, from this great distance is a man who is at least 90% wonderful genius and like most of us, has a few faults. Although Bee's experience is her own and I do not mean to discredit it.... I am starting to wonder about all the energy spent tearing him down here.

I know that the same type of thread could happen about any one of us, as perfect as we are!

There, I said it. This is not meant to downgrade anyone, just looking for an uplifting conversation about sustainable farming practices. Certainly there is SOMETHING good about the man.

 

[Beekissed]

Gosh Bee, if you weren't so darn challenging! Or maybe it was because he couldn't understand your accent..? Thick accents must be glare-worthy..
I'm teasing! Here I thought being humble was once a desired trait!


Yes Buster, that is great, isn't it, we are all entitled to our own opinions.
My opinion, as others have also said, is that he is human too. And it is foolish to put all of one's trust, honor, and support in a human being, because they too, make mistakes and are not perfect. Especially if someone has never met the person.

Bee, you mentioned that one hen was broody, but were there any roosters in sight? Just curious. I have a couple of hens that look like those in the picture and they are all free-ranged, but we also have roosters... 10.. 20.. 30... Never mind.

No roos that I could see, though one hen appeared to be crowing in his free range flock.

Free, there are all sorts of things that are great about Salatins genius and his methods, no one is denying that fact. If that were not so, I would not be using his methods now. No one is arguing the fact that he has some great ideas about sustainable farming. Nor do I intend to tear down his successes, nor even the man himself. Just gave a review of what I saw and how my experience went.

I urge you all to go and glean your own impressions, as I'm sure it would be a learning experience for many. I know it was for me!

 

[Farmfresh]

I personally learned a lot reading his book. I also very much agree with the majority of his methods. There ARE basic truths that he is a great champion of. I guess we all just like to nitpick. There is always room for improvement ... by golly, even me!

 

[Old Sew'n'Sew]

Dac, that was priceless!!!!

His birds were very crowded in that building, I was standing at the doorway when I took that pic, so the space you see is the space they had.....sort of put me in mind of the broiler houses.

One of the questions I asked was about his cows rumens...they were all squirting liquid feces and I merely asked him how long they had been out on spring grass. He stated they had been there since March. Now, by my thinking, if an animal has been on spring pasture for 2 1/2 months ,their rumen should have adjusted by now if it were going to do so. If not, many of their nutrients are shooting out their backside, along with valuable electrolytes.

I had read in one of his books where he provides winter stored hay in his fields in the spring so that the cows can have roughage and keep their rumens healthy. I did not see any hay, so I asked him how long it would be before their stool would be more firm....his reply was that this was rich graze. That was it....no explanation as to why he was letting his cows squirt their life away as if they were on a high corn diet. Well...duh! I can see that it's rich graze...what the heck are you doing for these cows so they can actually utilize it to it's full potential was the implied question here. He declined to expand on his answer but quickly changed the subject after giving me a dismissive glare. Yep, he glared.

In one of his books he describes what a healthy cow pat should look like, so I was trying to determine why he would describe this if his own cows didn't have them. Just curious, I guess, as it didn't seem to be an efficient use of all that great pasture nutrition.

Second question was about his broiler ration. I asked if he designed his own formula and was this list of ingredients available for viewing. He very sharply retorted that yes, he did design his own from local non-GMO grains and the ingredients were in his book. Obviously, few people on the tour had even read his books, so he was, in effect, telling me to go read a book, I don't wish to answer your question. Again, it was answered in a very abrupt and dismissive tone, no smiling charm wasted there.

I wouldn't call my questions any more intelligent than any one of you would have asked in the same situation...I'm wondering how he treats actual guy farmers who ask pointed or probing questions?

I'm just now catching up with you all, on this discussion from last week ,
In my experience with dairy goats, prolonged or unexplained diarrhea can be caused by parasites, intestinal WORMS! It can kill the babies, but make the adults thin and chronically have the squirts, as you described these cows. I wonder if they think to have them tested?

For the goats we alternated feeding garlic one month and chewing tobacco the next month, every month, so as to avoid feeding them the chemical wormers. I also avoided too much green grass. Feed hay before turning them out to pasture.

I don't know if cows can safely eat garlic or tobacco like goats?

Chickens can also benefit from being wormed regularly.

If he is as cheap as you say, then they are probably not getting regularly wormed.

When I had these goats, chickens, etc. many years ago, GMO grains had not been invented yet. Also the environment was much less out of balance than it is now, more climate stress, acid rain, pollutants, etc.now. It's commendable that he wants to turn the clock back, but, parasites are more resistant now than ever, also because of the factory farms, can't pretend that they aren't there. I found this out the hard way . I lost two babies back then.

 

[Beekissed]

Salatin worms his cattle with Shaklees soap, as do I with my sheep. I also use garlic at times.

I don't think his problem was worms, as he had some very good looking cattle...I just think he had some rich graze and didn't have any roughage to balance their rumens.

He also culls his herds for parasite resistance/tolerance.

SandS...have you ever read any of Salatin's books?

 

[Libertyhomestead]

Buster, he is now trying out Labelle Rouge, Freedom Rangers, in his setups.

"Label Rouge". Just a little side about the program for those who are curious. Its a European program like certified organic plus more. Only certain rustic breeds suited to outdoor life are allowed, no cornish cross. Birds must have freedom on pasture from 9am to dusk. Feed rations must be at least 75% cereal. No antibiotics, animal products, fish meal, growth stimulants, or additives in the feed. Air chilled after slaughter not in ice water. Routine taste tests are required to prove the quality is high enough. Poulet rouge is a term for the type of rustic breeds allowed. Rustic is not the same as heritage. One breed is the Redbro, a broiler hybrid from Hubbard-Isa desiged just for the Label Rouge program. The Redbro and other poulet rouge types are offered by JM Hatchery marketed by the name "Freedom Ranger". The best of the poulet rouge are a type of naked neck broiler. The naked neck carries genes that make thin translucent skin which crisps nicely when cooked.

More info:
http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/labelrouge.html
http://www.jmhatchery.com/free-range-broiler/freedom-ranger-chicks/prod_5.html

 

[Buster]

The best of the poulet rouge are a type of naked neck broiler. The naked neck carries genes that make thin translucent skin which crisps nicely when cooked.

Poulet Cou Nu . I've been trying to find where to order this Redbro hybrid in the US for months, but it must be the most closely guarded secret out there. Find folks bragging about raising them, but as soon as I ask where they order them from they just clam up. There are plenty of places to get NNs, but these babies are special.

Speaking of Freedom Rangers, I got my hands on a few young fellows from a friend of mine who wanted to let me try them out for taste before I order mine. Here are a few in my back yard by my pond. The first pic is of two 12 week old Rangers with a Buckeye cockerel of the same age to the far right for comparison. The Buckeye is no hatchery stock, but comes from a good breeder.

Excuse the ruffled feathers. It was a very windy day.

 

[Libertyhomestead]

Poulet Cou Nu . I've been trying to find where to order this Redbro hybrid in the US for months, but it must be the most closely guarded secret out there. Find folks bragging about raising them, but as soon as I ask where they order them from they just clam up. There are plenty of places to get NNs, but these babies are special.

I've been on the same quest. NaturesHarmonyFarm.com claims to have them and I have asked about their source. I believe I got a diverting reply because they suggested S&G Poultry. S&G claims to have developed their own strains so they can't be the actual Rebro Cou Nu. There is a hatchery called Yankee Chicks that is rumored to sell French poulet rouge types but they are not online.

Pm me if you find out, and I'll do the same.

 

[miss_thenorth]

http://www.ashleyfarms.com/label-rouge-america.php

???????

 

[Buster]

http://www.ashleyfarms.com/label-rouge-america.php

???????

Yeah, I've run into that one before, but I don't think they sell live birds. Thanks, though.

Libertyhomestead, I will PM if I run across them. Thanks.

Oh, and I got the same answer from Natures Harmony.