Polyface Farm Tour~Salatin~My experience (pics on page 3).

[VickiLynn]

Seein' as how my tractor is an old John Deere lawn tractor that is approximately 20 years old, I don't know if it would be very impressive.....

Let's see....my farm tour would consist of you all walking out in my back yard and me pointing at the chickens and saying, "There are my free ranged, noncertified organically raised chickens....be careful to watch where you walk as they will mug you for any suspected food items. My advice? Don't feed the chickens as it will turn them into nuisance chickens and they may have to be shot later. "

Now, folks, if you will look towards the orchard you will see my hair sheep on rotational grazing...see them eating? This is good. They will get fat and look pretty. The chickens follow them and eat any parasites, the dogs follow the chickens and eat their parasites and the chickens will eat the dog's parasites....so, you see, it is all a symbiotic relationship, just like in nature!"

If you look in the garden you will see noncertified organically grown veggies that will be canned, dried, preserved, sold at a normal price, and given away to anyone who needs them and cannot afford. Or even given to anyone who just cannot grow their own. For this I will receive much riches, both spiritually and mentally.

The bottom line? Life is not a race to see who can earn more money, but a journey and we will all leave here naked and empty-handed. The only thing that will journey beyond this life with us is love.

Please try to stop by the farm store of love on your way out and take as much as you can carry....please pass it on and on, as you will find your cup will runneth over with love being returned to you.

Thank you and I hope you enjoyed your farm tour today!

I'd pay $10.50 for that

 

[DrakeMaiden]

Now, for one, I always thought Polyface was a weird name for a farm and it didn't really sit right with me.

I'm wondering though if Mr. Salatin is the type of person who prefers a more quiet life out of the spotlight? Seems to me he is the type who enjoys not following the crowd. So I guess it does not surprise me that his interpersonal skills are probably underdeveloped and he may not really appreciate his new hobby of agritourism. That may explain why he is not a very gracious host. That having been said, does not excuse him from not stepping up if he wants to continue his agritourism business.

It may be that the farm wasn't running as smoothly as it may at other times, when your tour was scheduled. I don't know, but I do know that sometimes people come over when I have a sick animal that need tending. So those things do happen.

I am sorry to hear that the tour was not up to your expectations. It may be that you have high expectations, which I think is understandable and I would expect probably as much as you did. I think you were aware that Joel might have a dismissive view of women (rolling my eyes at him, not you), but I guess it can still be an adjustment to see such an attitude in action.

Bee, I think you are very insightful and I know that your farm and your farm animals are cared for to a higher standard than probably any celebrity farmer could hope to live up to -- a farm becomes increasingly hard to manage as the size increases. I hope this experience makes you feel even more proud of your own farmstead!

 

[Buster]

I agree that a healthy flock should not be wiped out by "minor infectious diseases". Even a healthy flock can take some hard loses, however, if we let that biosecurity guard down, by bringing strange birds into our flocks with out a proper quarantine period or by not limiting wild birds access to our feeders and water containers.

Who wants to lose their best hen to an outbreak of coccidiosis when all you would need to do to lessen the chance is keep the feeder hanging in the coop to reduce the amount of wild birds that feed from it? Who wants to deal with the problems and costs involved when a bird infected with poultry mites is introduced into your healthy flock? Who here is so brash that they would knowingly place a snotty nosed poofy eyed bird from and auction in their healthy flock?

Sure we are going to have exposure to wild birds and the occasional bio hazard whether we want to or not, but I for one will maintain at least SOME semblance of bio-security on my "farm". My healthy animals should have resistance, but why risk it?

In my opinion Polyface has biosecurity issues that none of the rest of us will ever have to face. How many of us are visited by hundreds of people each year that want to tromp around in our animal pens and have come to us from airports around the world? I think his total lack of caution is simply careless.

Okay, you start out great. It is absolutely essential that one be particularly careful when adding new stock to one's flock, particularly when it comes from a questionable source. I'm with you there.

But you lost me when you jumped from that to people tromping in his pens as being careless. Sorry, but I just don't buy that notion of biosecurity. It only matters in a factory farm CAFO system. Even there it is mostly used as an excuse to keep prying eyes out. It is completely irrelevant in a healthy system like Polyface.

BTW, Polyface translates into the farm of many faces, as in multifaceted. Bee's personal experience aside, it is still one of the leading examples of sustainable agriculture.

 

[Buster]

I think you were aware that Joel might have a dismissive view of women

And I'm for an entirely different reason.

 

[Beekissed]

I was thinking today about his pastured poultry....I believe he said his tractors were 10X12X2ft. tall and each contains 100 broilers that get moved once a day to new graze. They have a feeder full of feed and water, very short, already eaten grass and a small square of sunlight in one corner of the tractor.

They have fresh air and a fresh grass floor every day...other than that and the use of nonmedicated feed, these birds seem very much a CAFO when you think about it. 100 birds in 120 sq. ft. of space. The bugs have left the short grass to move to the taller,uneaten pasture and the available grass is the tough mid portion of the stem and clumps of grass that even a cow wouldn't eat.

Yes, cleaner and more open air than a broiler house and the lack of meds is a plus...but, when you think about it, they are confined to a very small space, fed continuous feed and I'm doubting they are eating anything that 100 feet and feces galore has been on for a day in a 120 sq. ft. space.

I've observed my birds closely when they forage and they usually only nip the tender tops and seed heads off grass...and that is adult birds. I can't imagine CX chicks are going to eat tough grass stems when feed is available.

I'm thinking this setup is so these birds can be marketed as pastured and free ranged, thus making it a more costly product.


Yes, I'm aware that even this setup is better than commercial setups, but it seems to me it could be improved upon to reflect the true meaning of free ranged meat. He could move his broilers in much the same way he does his eggmobile...and even that building was too small for the number of birds it was sheltering. But the layers were on fresh pasture of unshorn grasses and free to walk, scratch and graze in a larger area. This is a more honest definition of free ranged and pasture raised.



The manure that they are supposedly scattering is in liquid form already and flies don't normally lay eggs in liquid stool....at least I've never seen it until much later when it has dried well...way past the 3 day mark Joel sets for it. So...can't imagine much food is derived from cow feces of this nature.

As these birds grow, their pen does not grow with them...soon you have 100 birds with absolutely no room to scratch and forage even if they wanted to do so.

Just a thought that came to me today......

Buster, I know you admire the man and I did also...and I still admire his advocating a more natural setting for animals and food production and I have adopted some of his methods myself and find them to have many merits.

But....he did give me the impression of being arrogant and dismissive towards women. I know men will defend each other about these things but I was raised by just such a man as he and am very attuned to these attitudes. He may love his wife and daughter but I doubt he affords them the same respect he does men.

Of course, that is neither here nor there when talking of farm tours, is it?

 

[rebecca100]

Oh, I am so sorry about your tour. I think if nothing else it gives us a template to improve upon. I have met a lot of people around here who are the same way when women ask questions. Give you a little condescending grin and speak to you like your a child or catch an attitude when you call them on something. It sounds as if he has some unresolved problems going on and he thought those people he was showing around were too stupid to know the difference. If I had my chickens overcrowded like and rabbits dying(or a rabbit) I sure wouldn't be showing anyone that area if I didn't have the money/time to fix the problem. But in his defense I am sure that running such a public farm, dealing with people trying to shut him down(something he said in one of his interviews), and doing tours while tending animals is very stressful to say the least.

 

[Buster]

Stepping in it just a bit deeper...

Well, Bee, I know a couple who spent a good deal more time than a 2 hour tour with the man, and they assure me he is in no way dismissive of or disrespectful toward women. You are certainly entitled to your impression, but I'm inclined to give theirs a bit more weight. Others are welcome to disagree.

However, Joel is a very bright man, and can no doubt read a direct challenge in the subtext of a question posed to him. I'm guessing that anyone who challenges his techniques receives the same "dismissive" treatment during an introductory tour of his operation, regardless of gender.

On his broiler operation, he is of the theory that birds don't benefit as much from tall grass as they do shorter. I do run some of mine in broiler pens. I also run some in a net system, and some completely free range. By far the most beneficial system is the netting as the pens are too restrictive and full free range they tend to spend too much time near the coop going over the same areas. But currently those in the net system do pretty well on short grass (4 to 6 inches), and they are definitely eating something. They are dark cornish and delawares, so they aren't the lethargic creatures he is running in his pens. They are all over that thing scratching and pecking. When I run them on taller grass, they just don't seem to like it as much.

I do think he packs his birds too tightly, but they do have a bit more room than you are thinking. They are run in 12 by 12 by 2 foot pens, and it is my understanding the stocking rate is closer to 70 to 80 birds per pen. Still too tight, but nothing like a CAFO system.

My big issue continues to be his choice of meat bird, but other than that, his broiler system is sound and humane and in my opinion, superior to free range for both the taste of the meat and the health of the birds.

 

[Beekissed]

Buster, he is now trying out Labelle Rouge, Freedom Rangers, in his setups.

I wasn't challenging him with questions during his tour, I went to glean further information and those questions were intended to find out the answers and nothing more. Surely you are not suggesting that I drove 180 mile round trip and paid $21 and slogged through wet, muck and mire for two hours to challenge his methods and belittle him during a public tour?

Even I am not so stupid as that, woman that I am.

I have been a great champion of Salatin on this forum and have been an admirer of his methods. I've read most of his books and have followed his farm with great interest these many years. My honest impression of the tour was solicited by other members of this forum and was not meant as a smear campaign on Salatin. I'm not in the habit of lying nor saying things merely to sling mud at someone unprovoked.

I did preface my tour review with the fact that it was merely my impressions and opinions and they were biased by the very fact that they were derived by me and my lonely experience. Everyone has different experiences, depending upon their perspective.

Direct challenge? I was there to learn from the master! I'm just as sorry as you seem to be that my impression was less than I had expected from reading his books.

 

[Farmfresh]

In my opinion Polyface has biosecurity issues that none of the rest of us will ever have to face. How many of us are visited by hundreds of people each year that want to tromp around in our animal pens and have come to us from airports around the world? I think his total lack of caution is simply careless.

But you lost me when you jumped from that to people tromping in his pens as being careless. Sorry, but I just don't buy that notion of biosecurity. It only matters in a factory farm CAFO system. Even there it is mostly used as an excuse to keep prying eyes out. It is completely irrelevant in a healthy system like Polyface.

People traveling from all over the world is the major reason we now have pandemics in the human population. A person could very well visit an infected poultry farm in Asia, board a plane and then visit Polyface wearing the same shoes within the short time of only a couple of days. The airports of the world can barely prevent people from traveling with weapons much less dangerous pathogens in the cracks of their shoes! NORMAL people like us just don't have that kind of visitor, but due to his wide spread fame Salatin just might! Then others visiting could spread that pathogen back to their respective states. Heck someone MIGHT just do this on purpose. (Being paranoid here I know, but it is possible)

I just don't want another epidemic like hoof and mouth disease started in the US. He could STILL have visitors he just needs to use a few preventative measures or limit their access to a small (quarantined) part of the farm only.

 

[TanksHill]

Buster your net system sounds rather interesting. Can you post some pics on another thread? I would love to see the set up.

gina