Presidential Debate--who watched?

[Quail_Antwerp]

reinbeau, I agree with you.

My last comment, and then I will bow out of this thread, I really would like to see this country go back to living by the constitution.

I would like to exercise my right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness without someone telling my that I can't have it because I might offend someone else with how I have decided to live.

 

[reinbeau]

Just a little something to lighten things up a bit:

This is a nonpartisan joke that can be enjoyed by both parties - and it is politically correct!

While walking down the street one day a US senator is tragically hit by a truck and dies.

His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.

'Welcome to heaven,' says St. Peter. 'Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not sure what to do with you.'

'No problem, just let me in,' says the man.

'Well, I'd like to, but i have orders from higher up. What we'll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity.'

'Really, Ive made up my mind. I want to be in heaven,' says the senator.

'I'm sorry, but we have our rules.'

And with that, st. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him.

Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people.

They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and champagne.

Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that before he realizes it, it is time to go.

Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator rises... The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him.

'Now it's time to visit heaven.'

So, 24 hours pass with the senator joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and St. Peter returns.

'Well, then, you've spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now choose your eternity.'

The senator reflects for a minute, then he answers: 'Well, i would never have said it before, i mean heaven has been delightful, but i think i would be better off in hell.'

So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell.

Now the doors of the elevator open and he's in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage.

He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above.

The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder. 'I don't understand,' stammers the senator. 'Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now there's just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What happened?'

The devil looks at him, smiles and says, 'yesterday we were campaigning.. .

Today you voted.

 

[ScottyG]

Let's not turn this into a rah-rah session for anyone.

To get back to my point, I do not want the government in my business. I'm tired of others telling me how to keep myself safe. I've had it with worrying about my rights being whittled away by government.

True. Sorry, I got a little off topic and into ranting. My bad. I totally think everyone here has thought hard about their choices, and all involved have the best of intentions. I get a touch carried away sometimes.

I do think it's interesting how we all seem to want the same kinds of things, but have sought out opposite answers to those wants. For instance, I've also had it with worrying about my rights being whittled away by government, but have sought "liberal" thought as the answer to that. The rights I'm worried about are things like the right to have a private phone conversation, the right to know exactly what our government is doing behind closed doors, the right for a fair trial for all prisoners, the right not to be tortured. Also (more controversially) the right for my wife to make a decision about her body based on her own set of religious beliefs, the right for my homosexual friends to enjoy the blessing of marriage and visit a dying partner in the hospital if need be... in general, the right for me to hold my own set of beliefs, and not be held to someone else's religion or morals.

But then these are whole separate topics, and I don't want to start THAT argument. So, if you're liable to be inflamed by my paragraph above, please ignore it.

Thanks all for the lively and civil discussion, and my apologies for political ranting instead of sticking to the topic at hand.

 

[ScottyG]

I really would like to see this country go back to living by the constitution.

I would like to exercise my right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness without someone telling my that I can't have it because I might offend someone else with how I have decided to live.

AMEN.

 

[me&thegals]

Scotty--I think you completely nailed it. Where our "lives", "liberties" and "pursuits of happiness" differ is where we start to fight. I want MINE, everybody else wants THEIRS and sometimes they are completely different things.

I also believe that by default the richest and mightiest (the majority) will get its way. The weakest, youngest and minority must be protected. It's been said that a lot can be said about a society by how it treats the weakest among it.

Back to the topic at hand, debates are thoroughly unsatisfying, this whole campaigning process unbelievable, literally. But, what others tools do we have? It WOULD be really neat to see a lot more parties represented to get some serious conversations going, though!

 

[Woodland Woman]

There are more than 2 parties, the problem is they are not big news so they are disregarded by the media.

I liked Ron Paul. I agreed with him on most issues.

Obama scares me. I am originally from Chicago and I know how politics works there. Obama is surrounded by scandal and controversy. Who knows exactly how he feels about things since he doesn't vote very often in the senate. The candidate for change? What kind of change?

McCain doesn't impress me. But once again if I vote I will be voting for the lesser of 2 evils.

Is this the best our country has to offer?

Personally, I like Sarah Palin. She is not a Washington insider. In her state she fought corruption and lowered taxes. In the Vice-Presidential debate she admitted that she doesn't agree with McCain on everything.

I attended the Post Debate Rally for the Vice-Presidential Debate and saw Sarah Palin in person. She impressed me more in person than what I see on TV. What we see on TV is filtered through the media.

It is very interesting to see different opinions and learn new things and wonderful that we can have this discussion and remain friendly!

 

[unclejoe]

the national debt steadily declined from 1944 until 1980 with solid non-partisan effort. But then with the invention of Reagan's economic policy, which the current Republican party has adopted as "good," the national debt rose very sharply from 1980 until 1988, and then continued its meteoric rise from 1988-1992 with the first president Bush. Then, as you can see, under Clinton it turned around and started to decrease once again, thanks to his economic policies. And then, in 2000, it quickly begins rising again with the George W. Bush presidency, and continues to rise to this day. I think it's pretty clear that the "Reaganomics" that the current Republican party is selling as the answer to our problems is actually creating our economic problems.

I had planned to just read through this thread, but when I came to this post I decided that I just have to share my view. Trickle down economics simply DOES NOT WORK. Being a small business owner, my friends can't understand why I'm not supportive of this policy and the republican party. Give tax breaks to business, they hire more people and everything is right with the world. WRONG!! The tax savings end up in the pockets of the upper echelon of multi-million dollar company's in the form of 7 figure salary's and bonuses. I haven't seen the "blessings" of this policy. Between the feds and the state, I just barely make it! Trickle down economics to the average American means just enough pennies to get by on and keep you forever drowning in debt. It's time to put the money back in the pockets of us little guys and allow as much as WE want to trickle back up in the way we choose to spend it. Thanks. I needed that.

 

[reinbeau]

Unclejoe, the policies are good, it's the implementation, and the twisting of the purpose that's bad.

For some reason this whole country's culture is one of 'how can I manipulate this to help myself get richer and richer?'. The business climate is so fraught with corruption it sickens me. The Fast Eddy accounting practices that get these guys at the top those ridiculous bonuses and perks is at the heart of this current economic downfall.

Honest business practices will most definitely benefit from the top down. Unbridled greed will stop that benefit for those lower down the ladder every single time.

 

[attack-cat]

http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm This site has everyones stand on the issues and is not biased. Its an excellent place to spend some time reading.

Obama hates guns. He wants to ban semi-autos and some other things. I can't stand beside anyone who wants to wipe their feet on the Amendments. First you remove this one and then that one ...... not good. Also his association with Ayers and that Rev are not a good sign of who he wants as friends. You can tell alot about people by who they hang out with.

McCain is too pro-war. I respect our troops and the man himself is a hero as is any vet in my opinion but his military record has him in a POW camp and they mesw with peoples minds. I would have voted for him just because he is for more of the thigns I am for than Obama. But then both of them turned thier back son the voters and voted for that bailout. The people did not want that bailout. They added pork to the bailout until everyone had some pork in their pocket and then they voted for it. That was just wrong. Let some companies fail. Let people that bought McMansions on a McTiny paycheck fall down. They should have taken the time to figure out they couldn't afford a $2,000.00 a month payment on $1,500.00 a month total income. How many of us are gong to be helped by this bailout and the handout to the people who are loosing their homes? Probably none of us since we are here trying to save pennies and plan for our futures. I hate to sound mean but like mom used to say "Tough cookies."

You can list item after item bad about both candidates and it won't make any difference. The MSM has decided that there are two parties (though I can't see the difference in them anymore) and any one from a third party is just wasting their time. Ron Paul was an excellent choice for president but the MSM usually didn't even have him listed in polls when you went to vote online. I used to vote on every poll I could find.

And this year people are so mean to each other over the candidates. My husband is on a forum you can get to through this link http://www.coshoctontribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage click opinions and then forums.. and people are just vicous there about their candidates. They attack each other and call each other names. Its horrible. Of course dh loves it and pushes their buttons since he is neither for Obama or McCain.

The bottom line is neither candidate can wave a magic wand and fix things. It took years to get this mess to where it is. We need to clear out Washington and get new blood in there. The ones that voted against the wishes of the people are enemies of the people in my opinion. We put them in office and they stabbed us in the back. Jack Space was going to get my vote .... not now and he got an email telling him so.

I'll hop off the soap box. Sorry folks! Don't hate me .... I'm harmless but tired.

 

[patandchickens]

It is nice to have more than two major parties but it does not necessarily do all that much good. In Canada there are 5 parties that have elected members at the federal level, and STILL nobody that I would be optimistic about having 'em running things.

One huge difficulty in politics is that there are really three issues involved in having The Kind Of Government You Would Prefer. You want them to have more or less the types of policies that you think are appropriate/useful/fair/helpful; you want them to have the ability to implement those policies in a way that won't cause more problems than they solve; and you want them to refrain from doing anything overly selfish (e.g. porkbarrel), unethical (e.g. taking bribes, using position to further own financial ends, etc) or flat-out hideously embarrassing (Clinton and cigar; Clinton and the definition of the word 'is').

Unfortunately it seems vanishingly rare to get all 3 things together in the same package. Why? I don't think it's because Americans, and people the world over in fact, stupidly vote only their most idiotic and venal fellow citizens into office. And I don't think it's necessarily because politics corrupts, per se.

I honestly do not think that getting elected and then running a country is ANYwhere near as easy as people often seem to assume. (And I mention those two things separately on purpose - you DO have to get elected if you want to put your ideas into operation, and you DO have to carry out the practical running of the country, or whatever jurisdiction, if you and your ideas get elected...)

JMO,

Pat