Seriously, this helps how??

[me&thegals]

When my son came home from school yesterday upset because a bully in his class had smashed him in the face 3 times with a kickball during a "game," I DID NOT suggest he go back to school and do the same back. Think maybe that might have made a bad situation worse? We DID talk about other ways he might try to handle the situation.

If the United States wants to consider itself a world leader, it has to abide by the rules it has agreed to nationally and internationally. I know during war, people get very emotional and angry--of course! But, geez, if we don't abide by our principals, what do we have left? There's a reason we have guidelines such as the Geneva Convention. People get a little crazy during war. It gives them guidelines that they must not cross.

Plus, information gained through torture is known to be bad information. There are other tactics out there getting much better results, like actually learning about Iraqi culture and getting into their networks that way.

I'm telling you, if I was being repeatedly nearly drowned, or sexually humiliated or having my religious beliefs traumatized, I might say anything, too, to make it stop.

So, again, if you believe Iraqis to be evil, do we want to stoop as low as the bullies on the other side of the playground?

And, thank you BD for the WWJD comment. I actually am a Christian. Nothing I read about in my bible (New Testament) even slightly resembles the way our past president has treated the world's citizens. It makes me ashamed to think other nations might believe this is the way we all practice Christianity. It also gives me some empathy for other religious believers who have fringes go whacky and then all get blamed for believing that way...

 

[On Our own]

I agree with Big Daddy.

Three years ago a Marine with many years experience who had served his country well and honorably lay on the floor of my kitchen and wept until he vomited. Yes, I want that image in your head.

Why did this huge man who saw battle many many times and held the hands of men he loved as they died in his arms finally crack and cry? Because he had gotten stuck at GITMO for a year. He said it was the biggest violation of everything he believed about the country and himself and humanity that he had ever experienced and it made him ashamed and feel fouled.

That is one man's story. It is only his perspective, but I held him and wept with him and cleaned his face. And I wept for us and our country. Why do people give up everything they know to come here because other people believe in us and our ideals.

Watch the movie Ghosts of Abu Graib. Those people were made our soldiers were practically children. They did not think up those methods on their own.

The constitution is just a piece of paper if we give up on what it means. People are all freaked out about our "rights". when Adams said that our constitution was only meant for those who were religious and moral he meant that those who were to live under it had to be that way on their own, because the constitution was powerless to force them to be so. Those in office did not fail the constitution they failed us all.

 

[kstaven]

Some one here earlier in the thread asked what OLDER people thought. I asked my grandfather just that. He is 95.

His personal opinion is that we are in the mess we are today because all our focus is on what we don't like, who we don't like, and what is wrong with the world; rather than focusing on what we do like, where we agree, how we are all alike, want we want to see and working as families, communities and countries to build upon that base.


Here we all are trying to build on self sufficiency yet spending so much time pointing out what we don't like and what is wrong with everything and everyone. Such a waste of time and valuable energy. Self-sufficiency, in his opinion, will not stand the test of time if we don't learn how to work together as families and communities again, despite our differences. Our strength and ability to change the whole system has to start at its roots. It starts with the individual and family, and then takes in the community......

We teach our children to COMPETE rather than work together and then wonder why families and the country/world is falling apart. We are conditioned to see labels and tags rather than the person.

A very simplistic overview in and of itself but I find myself agreeing with him.

 

[sylvie]

What insight he has!
We do have to examine all aspects, including what went wrong, in order to make corrections. He sees the imbalance of our thinking.

I think it will be some time before communities adopt the idea of SS. I see the majority of my neighbors and family still very connected to the faster, aggressive pace of surviving in their work environment.

Is he commenting on these SS threads or is it the idea of Self-Sufficiency in general?

 

[dacjohns]

Some one here earlier in the thread asked what OLDER people thought. I asked my grandfather just that. He is 95.

His personal opinion is that we are in the mess we are today because all our focus is on what we don't like, who we don't like, and what is wrong with the world; rather than focusing on what we do like, where we agree, how we are all alike, want we want to see and working as families, communities and countries to build upon that base.


Here we all are trying to build on self sufficiency yet spending so much time pointing out what we don't like and what is wrong with everything and everyone. Such a waste of time and valuable energy. Self-sufficiency, in his opinion, will not stand the test of time if we don't learn how to work together as families and communities again, despite our differences. Our strength and ability to change the whole system has to start at its roots. It starts with the individual and family, and then takes in the community......

We teach our children to COMPETE rather than work together and then wonder why families and the country/world is falling apart. We are conditioned to see labels and tags rather than the person.

A very simplistic overview in and of itself but I find myself agreeing with him.

Very good points. I have noticed a bit of my way is right and yours is wrong. I feel it should be more of this is what works for me.

 

[me&thegals]

How very true. Unless we have walked in another's shoes, how can we really know?

In our foster care training class this past weekend, we had a group exercise in which we had to pretend to be a parent in a certain situation. The options were ALL BAD! But, it would be so easy to judge a parent choosing any of those options if one did not know those were the only poor options they had.

I would like to try to do less judging and more community building. Thank you for the wonderful reminder, kstaven.

 

[kstaven]

What insight he has!
We do have to examine all aspects, including what went wrong, in order to make corrections. He sees the imbalance of our thinking.

I think it will be some time before communities adopt the idea of SS. I see the majority of my neighbors and family still very connected to the faster, aggressive pace of surviving in their work environment.

Is he commenting on these SS threads or is it the idea of Self-Sufficiency in general?

He was commenting on the SS movement in general. But I have noticed it is applicable here as in any other SS type group.

 

[On Our own]

How very true. Unless we have walked in another's shoes, how can we really know?

In our foster care training class this past weekend, we had a group exercise in which we had to pretend to be a parent in a certain situation. The options were ALL BAD! But, it would be so easy to judge a parent choosing any of those options if one did not know those were the only poor options they had.

I would like to try to do less judging and more community building. Thank you for the wonderful reminder, kstaven.

You are SO right. I have seen people's lives be ruined over the lack of car fare . I have seen people's lives be ruined over trying to decide between losing their job, and leaving their kids home alone or with some one they don't trust. Many people blame people for bad decisions without ever recognizing that in many cases they had no good options available.

The other day my 8 year old's ride cancelled. I was home with the 6 year old and no car seat. I had the car, but no car seat. What do I do? I had other options, but what if I did not? Would you fault me for driving the 6 year old without a car seat and taking the risk? Or should I have sent the 8 year old home with some one else I didn't know well and hope for the best?

 

[Big Daddy]

Wouldn't it be great if you could take back all your bad decisions? Or all the bad things you let fall out of your mouth?

 

[farmerlor]

How very true. Unless we have walked in another's shoes, how can we really know?

In our foster care training class this past weekend, we had a group exercise in which we had to pretend to be a parent in a certain situation. The options were ALL BAD! But, it would be so easy to judge a parent choosing any of those options if one did not know those were the only poor options they had.

I would like to try to do less judging and more community building. Thank you for the wonderful reminder, kstaven.

Yeah, we get a lot of negative comments about the bio parents of our adopted children but I don't bear any of them any ill will. I think they did the best they could with the equipment they had available. I try very hard not to judge people, I'm not successful but at least I try.