Sufficient Self's Bible Study Group

[Beekissed]

I think Cindi has the right perspective on that. To me it is sort of like our current criminal justice system. Those who violate the laws of the land are incarcerated to remove them from the rest of society.

Imagine if the criminals were allowed to just be free and there were no consequences for their actions? The reason we remove them from society is so that others can be safe.

I imagine it is necessary to try and minimize the damage they do unto others, as I guess placing evil in a place of eternal separation is also to keep it from inflicting further damage on those who do choose to obey God's laws.

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Acts 2:27

 

[freemotion]

Here's a question: What do you all say to someone who declares that there couldn't be a Hell if God is a merciful God?

Depends on what you mean by hell. The original meaning of the Hebrew word, Sheol, is grave. Same for the Greek Hades, from which the term hell comes. The concept that people are conscious in Hell and are burned alive forever is one that showed up some time after the last book of the Bible was written, and was not known to the early Christians.

Eccl 9:5,10 (Sheol used in v 10)

Rev. 20:13, 14, KJ: The sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. According to this verse, the dead will come out of hell....the grave. Also, hell (the grave, or death itself) will be cast into the lake of fire. Hell is not the same as the lake of fire. The lake of fire represents eternal destruction from which there is no resurrection.

OK, I'm ready..... Disagree.

 

[Beekissed]

Hell by common understanding is a place of punishment and separation from God and eternal suffering. I don't really care about the origin of the word or disagreeing on the the semantics of it.

Most secular people I know either claim they do not believe in Heaven or Hell, believe only in Heaven and that all "good" people go there and all "bad" people just don't get to go there, or they think Hell will be just a big party for them and all their friends to attend after death...a place where everyone gets to continue to be "bad"~or have what they determine as fun~ throughout eternity.

 

[freemotion]

Well, my goal is always to find out what God means. Doesn't matter what I think, or what most people think or feel. What did HE mean? So going to the original languages and customs of the time is extremely useful. To me.

I teach massage and before that did a lot of tutoring, and believe me, there are many, many problems when a concept is translated from one language to another. Even with a good word to word language dictionary. Even face to face and in person. It takes much work and digging to really get the meaning. Biblical concepts are of the ultimate importance, so I am one to look deeply into the language. It is how my brain works.

 

[Denim Deb]

Hell is real. And, it is a place of constant torture and physical pain. Jesus spoke on it. Read Luke 16:19-31. I don't know if it's true or not, haven't really looked into it, but I've heard that Jesus taught more on hell than He did on heaven.

As to why God sends someone to hell, He doesn't. Everyone is given a choice and God honors the choice they make. If they reject Him, then He allows them to go where they chose.

 

[bambi]

I, think not having God, it would be hell. I am going to finish reading Ecc. since I have started it. I will continue to follow any other of the books as well. I like the idea of the New testament. The thought process of Ecc. to me is it is all about vanity and I do think we deal with vanity in our lives on a daily basis. Thanks BarredBuff for getting us going again.

 

[Dace]

My thoughts on Ecclesiastes. It seems that most chapters are the similar and commenting on them might seem a bit redundant. Can I just ask you guys to finish reading the book, without feeling the need to comment on it? I have been reading it, but there seems no point on commenting on it since it seems it is pretty black and white.

Cans we all take some time to finish reaing it, and then maybe give a few comments on it?

In thei interim, I think Bee's idea of looking at some questions people have about Christianity migh mke for a very good discussion.

Oh you summed up my feelings perfectly....I would read and the just have no comment!

What about a study of a person, like Peter or Paul? I would love to learn more about some of the people.

Bee, I think I would tell the doubter that God honors those who honor Him. We all have free will and He can not be held responsible for those who choose to live their lives in sin rejecting God and His desire to save them.

 

[savingdogs]

Well, my goal is always to find out what God means. Doesn't matter what I think, or what most people think or feel. What did HE mean? So going to the original languages and customs of the time is extremely useful. To me.

I teach massage and before that did a lot of tutoring, and believe me, there are many, many problems when a concept is translated from one language to another. Even with a good word to word language dictionary. Even face to face and in person. It takes much work and digging to really get the meaning. Biblical concepts are of the ultimate importance, so I am one to look deeply into the language. It is how my brain works.

Except for the teaching massage part, this is pretty much how my brain works too. I keep wondering, what would the words mean if I could have heard and understood the original language?

 

[freemotion]

Well, my goal is always to find out what God means. Doesn't matter what I think, or what most people think or feel. What did HE mean? So going to the original languages and customs of the time is extremely useful. To me.

I teach massage and before that did a lot of tutoring, and believe me, there are many, many problems when a concept is translated from one language to another. Even with a good word to word language dictionary. Even face to face and in person. It takes much work and digging to really get the meaning. Biblical concepts are of the ultimate importance, so I am one to look deeply into the language. It is how my brain works.

Except for the teaching massage part, this is pretty much how my brain works too. I keep wondering, what would the words mean if I could have heard and understood the original language?

This is why, at the very least, a good concordance is very useful when using a version rather than a translation. You can see how a particular word was translated differently in many different places, and replace it with the different words used in English, and see what the meaning should be, or if the translator was taking some liberties. This is why it says version, not translation.

As for the parable of the beggar and Abraham, that was an illustration that Jesus used, the clues are in the story. A drop of water? Seeing each other? It was hyperbole. Other clues come from the teachings of Jesus and the writings of the apostles.

 

[Farmfresh]

I too would like to at least finish what we started. This is a HARD book to read in the cold depression of winter, yet we should at least finish reading it.

Remember part of the reason we chose this book is because few of us were familiar with it. At least we can say we are gaining some familiarity.

Perhaps we just need to allow ourselves to broaden our focus while soldiering on. How many times have we all sat down in the middle of digging ready to quit and then ... after a rest, picked the shovel back up and finished the job. Later we were always glad we did. On the other hand ... how many of you have only one project on your plate at any given time? Hum .. that is what I thought!

~~

In response to Bee's question: "What do you all say to someone who declares that there couldn't be a Hell if God is a merciful God?"

I heard a pastor years ago give the best response to that question. How merciful would God be if ... after a person has made a personal choice to reject God, denounced God, lived his whole life wild and even embracing the thought of Hell - in the end died and found himself locked in eternity with God? Nothing could be more horrible, surely.

Instead he gives US the choice. We choose our own end - Hell or Heaven. We have to have options. What would life be without free choice?