Sufficient Self's Bible Study Group

[Wannabefree]

Here is all of you a brainbender to ponder.....

Now that the Oneness of God is established...what does it mean that Christ died for our sins? Christ is 1 part of the 3 part trinity of God..does that mean God died? Does it mean the Holy Spirit died too?

What does all that mean? What does it mean to you?

 

[Beekissed]

Jesus is God in the flesh and had to become this form to die and so let sin die along with Him.

ETA:

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:3

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you. John 14:26

 

[bambi]

Wow what great answers everyone has and also what great questions. Makes my head hurt trying to think about it all. Good qustion Wannabefree I think I will sit back get a cup of coffee and see the response
If it is ok I would like to say a blessing for our forum.

Blessed be to our Lord
We thank you for your blessing. We give thanks for the opportunity to share your word with our brothers and sisters in Christ. I ask that you guide us today in our understanding in your word. Amen

 

[Beekissed]

Amen!

 

[Rebbetzin]

My husband plans to write a book one day on the subject of what the Messiah accomplished for us on the cross..

A while back on another message board, someone asked this question...

"If daily sacrifices can never take away sins, and if Jesus offered one sacrifice for sins forever, then why do so many believe that there must be another Temple and further observance of the sacrificial laws of the OT. Jesus said He came to fulfill the law."

Here is the answer I gave her. It is a bit long, but you might enjoy reading it at your leisure.

In Matthew 5:17 the Messiah was answering accusations of the Leadership. He was being called a "Destroyer of Torah and a troubler of Israel." This phrase is common to this day in Judaism. One who misinterprets the Scriptures, and misapplies them to life, is called a "Destroyer of Torah", and such a one brings the judgement of G_d on the rest of Israel.

So the verses (5:17 & 18) in Matthew would be better from a Jewish perspective, if it was translated like this..

"Do not think I came to misinterpret, and wrongly apply the Law and the Prophets. I did not come to misinterpret and wrongly apply them, but I came correctly interpret the Law and the Prophets, and to correctly apply them to life. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter, or the smallest stroke of the pen in the construction of a Hebrew letter will by no means pass from the Torah until it is all correctly interpreted and correctly applied to life."

Sin was only one of the aspects of the sacrifices in the Temple. There are seven categories of offerings. Only three are in any way related to sin. The other four represent our relationship to the Holy One. Indeed in ways we have yet to understand, the work of the Messiah on the cross "fulfilled" (correctly accomplished) those offerings. But, to understand the sacrificial system and how it represented one's relationship with the Holy One takes much study of the sacrifices and what they stood for. We are not given the meanings of the offerings in a list per se. But, the meanings are there in the Torah for those who study.

Here is a summary of the Offerings

Korban Asham (Guilt or Trespass Offering)
Become aware of the sin/separation from G_d
The Asham offering is the one Messiah spoke of when He said.... "If you are making an offering and remember your brother has something against you..leave the offering and go make it right with your brother..." (before G_d accepts the asham.. you must first give the oleh v' yoreid offering, the restitution offering... making it right... in this offering.. you are "fined 20% over whatever you "stole or took by treachery" ) Also the offering is based on what the person was able to afford to bring.

See in Jewish thinking, G_d can forgive you for the sins you commit against Him, But, even G_d can not forgive you for the sins you commit against your brother. Your brother must forgive those sins himself. And you must do what you can to make it right with your brother.
Vayikra/Leviticus 5:14-26

The Messiah put it this way

Matthew 5:22-24
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca! shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, You fool! shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.


Korban Olehvyoreid (Variable Chatat, Literally,
Offering That Goes up and Down) Deals with guilt.

Confess/ agree with G-d that it was wrong. This offering is "variable" in that the offering "varies" according to the transgression, and how much you can afford to pay in restitution to make it right. The statutes are in the Torah as to what is required for each offense.
Vayikra/Leviticus 5:1-14

Korbanot Chatat (Purification from Sin Offering)

Repent/ turn away from the sin, do what is right, Go make it right as much as is in your power. This offering is symbolizing you are now "Purified from" the sin. Ready to continue in the offering process.
Vayikra/Leviticus 4:1-35

Olah (Whole Burnt Offering, Offering of dedication)

Complete dedication of yourself to G-d. You are now, able to again dedicate you life to serving the Holy One. Without the past sins to inhibit your relationship with Him
This offering was "flayed" opened up to the "separation of joints and marrow", In Hebrews 4:12 there is a direct reference to this practice which the Jews of the day would have readily recognized the author was speaking of the Olah Offering. This offering symbolically says to the L_rd, "May my life be as this animal, completely open nothing hidden, for you to see it all, that your light may shine into every corner of my being.
Vayikra/Leviticus 1:3 - 17

The Olah is what Abraham was asked to make of his son Isaac. It was not just to kill his son, but to "flay" his son!

Daily and Festival Olahs (Fellowship/Peace Offerings)

Being thankful for G-d's provision in our lives, both spiritual and physical. Knowing that He provides all things for our good. Peace with G_d, intimacy that comes from a pure heart nothing "held back . Nothing to hinder our relationship with the Holy One.
These offerings were given to celebrate your life being spared from some illness or accident. They were great feasts/celebrations where you gathered friends and family to hear your testimony of the grace and mercy of G_D. in your life or the life of someone in your family. And
Bamidbar/Numbers 28:1-15

Minchah (Meal or Grain Offering, Peace with G_d)

Being thankful for G-d's provision in our lives, both spiritual and physical. Knowing that He provides all things for our good. This was required to be added to many of the other offerings, As a symbol of our thankfulness.
Vayikra/Leviticus 2:1-16

Zevach Shelamim (Intimacy with G_D)
Peace with G-d, intimacy that comes from a pure heart nothing "held back . Nothing to hinder our relationship with the Holy One. This is the offering that Abraham was asked to make of his only son, Isaac. On the same mountain, that the Messiah would also carry the wood on his back up the mountain for the offering He made of his life. What G_d asked of Abraham to do, in giving his only son, G_d did many years later on that same place.
Vayikra/Leviticus 3:1-17

So that is the "process" of the offerings... The first two deal with the guilt of sin...The third is a "purification from sin". The last four are to symbolize of our relationship to G_d. In the cross all the offerings were "fulfilled in Messiah" Fulfilled in the sense of, doing it correctly, it does not mean "done away with". To fulfill a commandment or commitment... means to do it....all the way...all the time... every time.... it doesn't mean you do it once and then you are then free to break that commandment/commitment.
The same is true here... Messiah was the only one to do/and be all of these offerings for us completely and correctly, to the satisfaction of His Father, so that we are made righteous through the shed blood of the Messiah. We may never in this life understand all that was accomplished on that cross. We no longer have to, nor are we able to, bring animals as a symbol of these steps in getting right with G_d. But we see in the offerings the steps we need to take to live our lives in peace with G_d and each other, so that the sacrifice of His Son was not in vain.

 

[Beekissed]

Rebettzin, forgive my ignorance on this matter but I've often wondered why some people do not spell the name of God but will delete the full spelling, as you do. Can you tell me why?

 

[Wannabefree]

I think I can answer that if I may. I was curious as well...she told me it is because the name of God should not be put on documents that can be destroyed such as deleting or burning of paper, but that it should be held more sacred. Is that about accurate Rebbetzin?

 

[Beekissed]

Is that somewhere in the Bible or just a personally held belief?

 

[BarredBuff]

Here is all of you a brainbender to ponder.....

Now that the Oneness of God is established...what does it mean that Christ died for our sins? Christ is 1 part of the 3 part trinity of God..does that mean God died? Does it mean the Holy Spirit died too?

What does all that mean? What does it mean to you?

The son did die but was ressurected to rejoin the father. The son conquered death, the price of sin and where the Holy Spirit is concerned, he didnt die because he is another part of the trinity.

 

[Wannabefree]

Is that somewhere in the Bible or just a personally held belief?

I think it is a Jewish belief or tradition Not sure on that one.