What did you do in the garden today?

[frustratedearthmother]

That's true!

 

[sumi]

This is hearsay, so don't take it for facts, but I had a discussion with my ex years ago about people putting all sorts of manure (including human ) on their gardens. He told me that the plants won't absorb anything unnecessary from the soil, they only take water and the nutrients they need. I would recommend thoroughly washing any crops treated with manure compost though!

 

[Beekissed]

http://cssf.usc.edu/History/2008/Projects/J1527.pdf

Studies show that dewormers that affect roundworms in livestock also affect round worms in the soils, such as red wigglers. A roundworm medication pretty much affects most species of roundworms.

Human manure is no different than livestock manure and if sourced properly, is likely even more healthy due to the chemicals used in so many livestock in today's farming practices that humans do not use.

In a garden setting, when using humanure, it's composted much like any other manure, so nothing dangerous in placing it there or worrying about it contaminating your vegetables no more than any other manure would. It all gets incorporated into the soils by worms and is no longer on the surface where it can place any residue on vegetables when it rains.

Same with using urine as fertilizer...it's the same as using any animal waste, it's quickly incorporated into and under the soils for nutrition for the microbial life and plants there and there is no rational reason for not using it as you would any other liquid fertilizer like compost or manure tea, fish emulsion, etc., without worrying about the ick factor. Urine is one of the most perfect natural fertilizers out there. It's also incorporated into all of the animal manures you will place there, so it's really all the same....and all good.

As for vegetables only taking up what they can use and then no more, try using that theory and seeing what plants look like when they've had too much nitrogen or any other nutrient...there's all kinds of ramifications that happen to crops when they get too much of any one kind of vital nutrient and all of it's bad. Some cannot produce and many will die if they've had too much of a good thing.

 

[sumi]

As for vegetables only taking up what they can use and then no more, try using that theory and seeing what plants look like when they've had too much nitrogen or any other nutrient...there's all kinds of ramifications that happen to crops when they get too much of any one kind of vital nutrient and all of it's bad. Some cannot produce and many will die if they've had too much of a good thing.

Gotcha! I think what he meant was the plants won't take up anything "icky" from the manure. Personally I'm not comfortable with using humanure in the garden. Animal and others to some extend, sure, but the ick factor..

 

[Beekissed]

Gotcha! I think what he meant was the plants won't take up anything "icky" from the manure. Personally I'm not comfortable with using humanure in the garden. Animal and others to some extend, sure, but the ick factor..

I agree with him there for most plants and in most situations, though some chemicals can be absorbed in root crops especially...some commercial farmers use root crops to "clean" their soils of excess heavy metals from the commercial fertilizers, as too many of the heavy metals prevents their regular crops from producing as they should and taking up vital nutrients. That's one reason folks that are health minded advise against ever eating potatoes, carrots, turnips, etc from the store.

As for the ick factor....most have that and it's always puzzled me. Crap is crap, for the most part, so it's all about getting that through one's mind. It's all waste product, it all smells pretty much the same and all has the same composition/bacterial cultures/etc.

But, most intelligent animals don't eat where they crap, so I can see the natural repulsion for it in regards to placing it where you grow your food. Smart dogs won't poop all over the place but in one corner of their boundary/territory, pigs usually like to poop in one area of their pen, rabbits often do the same, etc.

 

[frustratedearthmother]

Interesting:
https://www.growingproduce.com/vege...i-and-salmonella-work-in-spinach-and-lettuce/

 

[Hinotori]

For urine, the traditional method that has been around centuries is straw bales or piles put in a spot for men to water. Adds plenty of nitrogen.

 

[Lazy Gardener]

Interesting discussion. I agree with everything Bee has said, and have an other 2 cents to toss into the conversation.

I've read that some of the newer herbicides have an extremely long half life. They do their job in the field, are taken up in the hay, eaten by the cow, pooped into the litter, composted. An unsuspecting gardener then places either manure, hay, or compost on their garden. Their garden is essentially poisoned for YEARS.

An other note: Glyphosphate. U.S. is one of the few countries that still allows it. It is a proven endocrine disruptor and carcinogen. The manufacturer states that it breaks down very quickly in the soil, and is not even detectable a short time after application. What they don't state is the long term effect on the soil microorganisms, and the fact that the glyphosphate is taken up by them, effectively rendering your soil dead. Please do your research and read the studies that point accusing fingers at Glyphosphate before using it. I feel so strongly about glyphosphate that I will not allow it on my property.

Several years ago, I participated in a work crew. We went to the home of a member of our church family. The husband was dying from leukemia. Several folks went inside and did some indoor projects. I worked with a gal outside, doing some yard work. This yard had lots of lovely perennial flower beds, and a well manicured lawn. The wife wanted us to spray the edges of the beds with Roundup. Their garage was PACKED with containers of Roundup. We could SMELL the stuff in the yard. She assured us that her husband said that Roundup was a good safe chemical to use, and... he was a smart man... Yet, he lay in a bed, dying of cancer. Needless to say, we declined to do her spraying. I find myself wondering if he was a victim of his own gardening practices.

I have lots of poison ivy invasion. I am extremely sensitive to poison ivy. A single exposure to the tiniest amount of Uroshiol will leave a painful lesion that will last 6 weeks! I dress in what looks like a haz-mat suit and pull the stuff by hand.

There are class action suits against manufacturers of Glyphosphate. Yet, a single evening of watching TV results in non stop bombardment about how miraculous this poison is in both garden and landscape.

Ivermectin: It is used in human medicine, so I'd not be very concerned about it showing up in my garden crops. Other wormers: Agreed with Bee that I'd be more concerned about what they do to the beneficial worms in my garden than the possibility of ingesting them.

There are insecticides that are designed to be eaten by stable animals. The insecticide persists in the manure, is eaten by the stable flies, which are then killed. Really? I find myself wondering what price the animal pays for this convenience. And, how long do these products persist in manure, compost, and soil?

I have an other question to add to this topic: My greatest concern is about the use of rodenticides. Can they be up-taken by plants? Or persist in the soil after a rodent has expired from eating a poison? I've searched for answer to this question, and have not yet found any source that addresses the topic.

One of the greatest reasons why I have chickens is for their benefit to my gardening practices. Lovely compost, weed and insect control, fertility for my lawn (in spite of the many craters they produce in the process), lawn art, and a never ending source of entertainment, exercise and education. The eggs and meat are merely an added benefit. And, of course all of the lovely black gold produced by my chickens is free of poison!

My bottom line: I am extremely cautious about any materials brought onto my property. I only source hay from a farmer that I know, and I always verify that he cuts on fields that have not been sprayed. I have not brought bulk manure onto my property in over 10 years. Though, just last weekend, I did bring home some spent stable litter loaded with horse and goat nuggets. That was a calculated risk! All garden inputs come from my flock, my yard, leaves collected from roadside pick up in the fall, composted leaves and wood chips from town compost lot.

I would never knowingly add grass clippings from any other yard.

 

[NH Homesteader]

I only buy hay from farmers I know. That being said, I don't know anyone in my area that sprays. It's awful expensive for the old timers! People that buy "horse hay" from surrounding areas, I would question what's in it for sure.

I do not and will not use glyphosate or rat poison or anything here. I have owls, I'd like to keep them here!

I have very little poison ivy here, actually I've never seen poison ivy here. I have a tiny bit of poison sumac. It's in an area I don't need to get to, but I'd let my goats take it out if I had to!

 

[Beekissed]

Ivermectin: It is used in human medicine, so I'd not be very concerned about it showing up in my garden crops. Other wormers: Agreed with Bee that I'd be more concerned about what they do to the beneficial worms in my garden than the possibility of ingesting them.

LG, most vermicides used on animals are also used on humans, so it's six of one, half dozen of the other. They ALL have potential to harm the round worms in garden soil.