Why not GM?

[ThrottleJockey]

Well, after reading the replies, my thought on it is the same as my original thought- it's just selective breeding on a more rigorous schedule. Interesting.

NO, this could not be further from the truth! It is splicing genes from animals, bacterium , viruses, insects etc.... into plants for our consumption. It is taking genes from one species of animal, plant, insect, germ, etc....and putting it into another species of animal. Tomatoes with starfish genes in them, goats with spider genes in them....it's not selective breeding in any way shape or form, it is Frankenstein only scarier and with very REAL consequences. It is an attempt at playing God with no real idea what we're doing, trial by error except one error may well be the end of human life on earth and we may well have already made it..

 

[ORChick]

Well, after reading the replies, my thought on it is the same as my original thought- it's just selective breeding on a more rigorous schedule. Interesting.

I didn't read all the replies, so not sure where you get this idea. The thing with GM is that it is NOT selective breeding at all, it is manipulation at the cell level. The changes being made to the seed CANNOT be made by breeding, selectively or randomly. Try as one might, it is impossible to breed two different species. However, scientists can combine the two in a laboratory. Some people think this is a good idea; others don't. But it isn't "selective breeding"

 

[me&thegals]

Everything stated above.

As an organic farmer, it's difficult to see organic grain farmers struggled to keep their fields "clean" with so much GMO pollen floating around.

 

[Bettacreek]

In all honesty where is it going to stop? The stuff that plants are supposed to deter will evolve to overcome the plant's defenses. Do we really want TRUE super bugs that kill anything that isn't genetically tampered with? Selective breeding is a slow process, genetic tampering isn't. So while bugs and disease amp up evolution the naturally bred plants could slowly be phased out... Especially when cross fertilization happens. So, what happens when twenty years from now they realize that GM products are killing us and the environment and we have no way to return to naturally bred plant foods?

Another thing, as others have mentioned... Do we really want to take away personal choice? The companies are already taking over production of food. Do we want people to no longer have the choice to grow their own food because everything has been infected with patented genes? Take a good look at seed prices. They are not cheap, especially if you add all of the seeds one would need to support themselves and their family. Now think if you'd be forced to pay those prices every single year... Add onto that supply and demand. If one company owns all of our rights to produce seed then they can charge whatever they want because they have no competition to balance them out.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

In all honesty where is it going to stop? The stuff that plants are supposed to deter will evolve to overcome the plant's defenses. Do we really want TRUE super bugs that kill anything that isn't genetically tampered with? Selective breeding is a slow process, genetic tampering isn't. So while bugs and disease amp up evolution the naturally bred plants could slowly be phased out... Especially when cross fertilization happens. So, what happens when twenty years from now they realize that GM products are killing us and the environment and we have no way to return to naturally bred plant foods?

Another thing, as others have mentioned... Do we really want to take away personal choice? The companies are already taking over production of food. Do we want people to no longer have the choice to grow their own food because everything has been infected with patented genes? Take a good look at seed prices. They are not cheap, especially if you add all of the seeds one would need to support themselves and their family. Now think if you'd be forced to pay those prices every single year... Add onto that supply and demand. If one company owns all of our rights to produce seed then they can charge whatever they want because they have no competition to balance them out.

I agree. Now look at the big picture, the master plan. Agenda 21, it requires about an 85-90% reduction in global population and what better way to do that than through food over an extended seemingly un-noticeable period of time via sterility and lessened reproduction which just so happens to be the primary side effect of GMO crops. Hmmmm.

 

[k15n1]

In all honesty where is it going to stop? The stuff that plants are supposed to deter will evolve to overcome the plant's defenses. Do we really want TRUE super bugs that kill anything that isn't genetically tampered with? Selective breeding is a slow process, genetic tampering isn't. So while bugs and disease amp up evolution the naturally bred plants could slowly be phased out... Especially when cross fertilization happens. So, what happens when twenty years from now they realize that GM products are killing us and the environment and we have no way to return to naturally bred plant foods?

Another thing, as others have mentioned... Do we really want to take away personal choice? The companies are already taking over production of food. Do we want people to no longer have the choice to grow their own food because everything has been infected with patented genes? Take a good look at seed prices. They are not cheap, especially if you add all of the seeds one would need to support themselves and their family. Now think if you'd be forced to pay those prices every single year... Add onto that supply and demand. If one company owns all of our rights to produce seed then they can charge whatever they want because they have no competition to balance them out.

I agree. Now look at the big picture, the master plan. Agenda 21, it requires about an 85-90% reduction in global population and what better way to do that than through food over an extended seemingly un-noticeable period of time via sterility and lessened reproduction which just so happens to be the primary side effect of GMO crops. Hmmmm.

You're right, the reproductive potential is less. The seed companies want you to BUY seed every year instead of brown-bagging it. In cases where seed isn't sterile, there are strict legal requirements to prevent you from saving it and planting it the next year. The seed companies harass seed-cleaning services and have tried to make seed-cleaning equipment illegal to even own.

I don't think the problem is only genetics---the main problem is monopoly and monoculture.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

In all honesty where is it going to stop? The stuff that plants are supposed to deter will evolve to overcome the plant's defenses. Do we really want TRUE super bugs that kill anything that isn't genetically tampered with? Selective breeding is a slow process, genetic tampering isn't. So while bugs and disease amp up evolution the naturally bred plants could slowly be phased out... Especially when cross fertilization happens. So, what happens when twenty years from now they realize that GM products are killing us and the environment and we have no way to return to naturally bred plant foods?

Another thing, as others have mentioned... Do we really want to take away personal choice? The companies are already taking over production of food. Do we want people to no longer have the choice to grow their own food because everything has been infected with patented genes? Take a good look at seed prices. They are not cheap, especially if you add all of the seeds one would need to support themselves and their family. Now think if you'd be forced to pay those prices every single year... Add onto that supply and demand. If one company owns all of our rights to produce seed then they can charge whatever they want because they have no competition to balance them out.

I agree. Now look at the big picture, the master plan. Agenda 21, it requires about an 85-90% reduction in global population and what better way to do that than through food over an extended seemingly un-noticeable period of time via sterility and lessened reproduction which just so happens to be the primary side effect of GMO crops. Hmmmm.

You're right, the reproductive potential is less. The seed companies want you to BUY seed every year instead of brown-bagging it. In cases where seed isn't sterile, there are strict legal requirements to prevent you from saving it and planting it the next year. The seed companies harass seed-cleaning services and have tried to make seed-cleaning equipment illegal to even own.

I don't think the problem is only genetics---the main problem is monopoly and monoculture.

This is true but in the context of my post I am referring to the reduction in human population and the reproductive harm GMOs cause in livestock and people. What you are referring to is true of any hybrid seed, not just GMO seed. The rabbit hole is far deeper than you think and you've gotta just jump into it head first to see just how far down it goes.

 

[k15n1]

I agree. Now look at the big picture, the master plan. Agenda 21, it requires about an 85-90% reduction in global population and what better way to do that than through food over an extended seemingly un-noticeable period of time via sterility and lessened reproduction which just so happens to be the primary side effect of GMO crops. Hmmmm.

You're right, the reproductive potential is less. The seed companies want you to BUY seed every year instead of brown-bagging it. In cases where seed isn't sterile, there are strict legal requirements to prevent you from saving it and planting it the next year. The seed companies harass seed-cleaning services and have tried to make seed-cleaning equipment illegal to even own.

I don't think the problem is only genetics---the main problem is monopoly and monoculture.

This is true but in the context of my post I am referring to the reduction in human population and the reproductive harm GMOs cause in livestock and people. What you are referring to is true of any hybrid seed, not just GMO seed. The rabbit hole is far deeper than you think and you've gotta just jump into it head first to see just how far down it goes.

No, not hybrids. Worse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_technology

TVs in the bedroom and wealth probably have more to do with reduced reproduction than GMO crops. Or maybe being fat reduces one's reproductive potential... either way, I think you're beyond the evidence. If not, post your evidence here so we can see it. That's fair, isn't it?

 

[ThrottleJockey]

You're right, the reproductive potential is less. The seed companies want you to BUY seed every year instead of brown-bagging it. In cases where seed isn't sterile, there are strict legal requirements to prevent you from saving it and planting it the next year. The seed companies harass seed-cleaning services and have tried to make seed-cleaning equipment illegal to even own.

I don't think the problem is only genetics---the main problem is monopoly and monoculture.

This is true but in the context of my post I am referring to the reduction in human population and the reproductive harm GMOs cause in livestock and people. What you are referring to is true of any hybrid seed, not just GMO seed. The rabbit hole is far deeper than you think and you've gotta just jump into it head first to see just how far down it goes.

No, not hybrids. Worse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_technology

TVs in the bedroom and wealth probably have more to do with reduced reproduction than GMO crops. Or maybe being fat reduces one's reproductive potential... either way, I think you're beyond the evidence. If not, post your evidence here so we can see it. That's fair, isn't it?

I already posted it, but I'll go back through the thread and find it again for you. The thing with hybrid seed isn't that it is sterile, but that the majority of the time will yield a plant that doesn't produce the seconds time around, there is no way of knowing which traits will show up if anything at all even grows.

Post #4 on page 1 gives a couple of graphics and a link showing reproductive harm in lab studies.

Look up HR875 and S425 if you want to see some frightening info about monsanto and cargil taking over the world. They claim our gardens ruin their crops and should be banned...so we are forced to buy food from them at any price they ask.....

 

[k15n1]

This is true but in the context of my post I am referring to the reduction in human population and the reproductive harm GMOs cause in livestock and people. What you are referring to is true of any hybrid seed, not just GMO seed. The rabbit hole is far deeper than you think and you've gotta just jump into it head first to see just how far down it goes.

No, not hybrids. Worse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_technology

TVs in the bedroom and wealth probably have more to do with reduced reproduction than GMO crops. Or maybe being fat reduces one's reproductive potential... either way, I think you're beyond the evidence. If not, post your evidence here so we can see it. That's fair, isn't it?

I already posted it, but I'll go back through the thread and find it again for you. The thing with hybrid seed isn't that it is sterile, but that the majority of the time will yield a plant that doesn't produce the seconds time around, there is no way of knowing which traits will show up if anything at all even grows.

Post #4 on page 1 gives a couple of graphics and a link showing reproductive harm in lab studies.

Look up HR875 and S425 if you want to see some frightening info about monsanto and cargil taking over the world. They claim our gardens ruin their crops and should be banned...so we are forced to buy food from them at any price they ask.....

I understand how hybrids work. I'm not talking about hybrids. I'm writing to inform you about terminator genes that render the seeds sterile [1].

Yeah, and I did look up those bills you mentioned. Snopes.com [4] indicates that you're using the internet to perpetuate common misunderstandings about a bill (HR875) that was never even voted on. You can find the full text on the internet [3]. If you want to continue discussing this bill, please cite the specific part that makes gardens illegal.

There's less rancor regarding S425. I'm not sure what part of it is such a problem. I think it is meant to address the problem that there is no federal legislation that enables the government to force recalls of tainted food. Anywayn, I'm not going to go on a fishing expedition, trying to figure out what your issue is. Please clearly state your issue and we can discuss it if it's related to GMO.


1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_technology
2. http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/organic.asp
3. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr875/text
4. http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/organic.asp