Abifae - Ciao Babies!

[abifae]

I don't think they can mentally picture their own face clearly as associated with various emotions. Then this often translates into a total disconnect or at least misunderstanding of other people's body and facial signals.

Very very. Even if I practice in a mirror I don't see my own expressions any better than I can tell someone else's. It took my friend two years to teach me to smile. I kept yelling at people that I was FINE and why did they all pester me so and she said it's because my default face is flat. Well of course it is. That is what relaxed MEANS.

But nooOOOooo. Humans want to you to show fangs all the time and put on your "social face". So I can finally smile and any observant person says it's actually a scary face. haha.

The Autistic people that I have met that seem to be the most successful in life always have enough intelligence to be able to learn, what would you call it? The Rules of Interaction? (I think of the Starfleet "Rules of Engagement" here. ) This makes dealing with "normies" a bit easier, but it is often confusing and consumes a lot of energy and time.

Very very true. I know a lot of the rules by rote and I use logic puzzles to figure out what I should be doing. I have a long (long long long) list of things that scare humans to try and avoid doing. I have an even longer list of all the things I've been told to not do in public. I have an even LONGER list of all the things I've been told to not say in public. So any thought of action I have, I go through all those lists first to be sure I won't be in trouble.

I hate "public". It's a horrible fence where if you are yourself you are destroyed. *sighs*

I get physically ill with my current job because it takes so much effort to maintain my voice and words all day and hear the customer's voice and translate their words into meaning and try to solve their issue while still "communicating" with them.

I have very serious concerns about going OUT to work lol. But I'm trying for overnight somewhere. Fewer families to offend.

We try to do a lot of "teaching" in our program. I spend a lot of time trying to both explain and demonstrate facial expressions and body language to my kiddos. "Your face looks angry right now." (sometimes I demonstrate by mimicking - sometimes I show them a mirror) "Your body is showing me that you are not ready to listen to me. I can tell because your arms are crossed and your hands are making fists." We also have a lot of expression flash cards and games that we play.

That is so awesome. I need that NOW!

And yes, the more a kid is aware of those things YOUNG, the better!! In Grandin's book on social rules , she explains that you have to combine learning the rules by rote and teaching that awareness. Some things will stay rote. Heck, I know to not cross my arms while talking to someone by rote.

I try to practice facial expressions. They make auntie laugh. I think I'm doing it wrong.

So I have flat. And scary autie smile. And a natural smile. I worry about people that can't tell them apart. But most people can't. What does that mean???

 

[Henrietta23]

Wow FF! You pointed out some things I've probably noticed but never been able to put into words (or possibly solid thoughts)! I've been aware that my self image is stuck back 20 years ago and yet when I look at pictures of myself from then I realize that even that isn't quite accurate! I frequently am shocked at what I look like now. I will never truly think of myself as heavy because I grew up very skinny. It's really kind of weird and I used to think I was the only one who felt that way! The part that really hit home was the awareness of how scary you look when you're mad. As I've worked with kids over the years I've come to understand that about myself. Seeing it through DS's eyes too. I have made first graders cry without actually saying a word, just by looking angry.

Abi, more on my student N. She is the most social of the autistic kids I work with. When I go into study hall to pick up one of my other students for a session, she is frequently waiting for my supervisor to pick her up. But my supervisor is almost always late, or forgets to get her... and that makes N. quite upset. So she will shout out to me, "where's Mrs. C?" and be angry with me that her routine is shaken up a bit. So I when one of my students stopped coming to school during her time I switched with my supervisor and put N back on my caseload. I've talked with her about how being angry with Mrs. C shouldn't transfer to her yelling at me about it. She kind of lumps us into one person almost like I'm responsible for Mrs. C's actions somehow. So we have these conversations from time to time. I see her once a week. Sometimes many weeks later she will bring up one of these conversations and go over it with me, like she's testing herself to see if she understands what my point was.
I forgot to bring up J. another girl who is very autistic. She also is more intune to the nonverbal stuff than any of the boys I work with. I have to wonder if there's something to that... anyway. One day my bangs were a little long and they were annoying me. She picked up on the fact that I kept fussing with them and asked me if I liked bangs. She brought it up over and over for the next few months, everytime I saw her. Any personal information I've shared like I don't like flip flops, or wearing big heavy earrings, or that the third hole in my left ear lobe keeps closing up, she plays back again and again and again.
Honestly, these kids fascinate me! And then I look at my own personality and remember things from my childhood with fresh eyes and think, wow, there's some of me on that spectrum!

 

[abifae]

Wow FF! You pointed out some things I've probably noticed but never been able to put into words (or possibly solid thoughts)!

Yeh She was awesome!!!

I frequently am shocked at what I look like now. I will never truly think of myself as heavy because I grew up very skinny. It's really kind of weird and I used to think I was the only one who felt that way!

I've never known what I looked like. Me sewing is the first time I've been aware of my size. I used to just buy everything extra large because I was pretty sure it would fit. After growing... a lot... I fit medium or large >.>

Who knew! LOL!!

I think the hardest part with autistic kids is that most of what they feel everyone feels and they don't believe it. Everyone has feelings. Everyone feels alone. Everyone thinks they are the only one who *fill in the blank*. Everyone feels awkward. Everyone misses what other people say and mean. Everyone misconstrues their own words. Having autism main stream has made it even worse. Auties now are shown how very weird they are and how broken. So it's that much harder for them to realize the ONLY difference is in the processing. Not that this is a tiny insignificant difference. But all the rest are just reactions to oneself and everyone has those.

In that book I keep talking about, Temple says autism was easier in a lot of ways in the 50s because the rules were more consistent and no one had any problem keeping you in line lol. And there were no excuses. From what I read online from auties' blogs, they love the excuse that they are autistic so they can't *fill in blank with whatever they don't want to put effort into*. And all the anger that everyone else isn't going to just accommodate them.

I'm still confused that most people hate filling in applications too. And that resumes are hard. And that cover letters are something most people fail at.

Abi, more on my student N. She is the most social of the autistic kids I work with.

I've read girls are naturally more social and so this is true for auties too and makes us harder to diagnose.

I've talked with her about how being angry with Mrs. C shouldn't transfer to her yelling at me about it. She kind of lumps us into one person almost like I'm responsible for Mrs. C's actions somehow. So we have these conversations from time to time. I see her once a week. Sometimes many weeks later she will bring up one of these conversations and go over it with me, like she's testing herself to see if she understands what my point was.

I do that Bring stuff up over and over and over until I'm sure I understand it right and then bring it up over and over again to try and see what other rules it affects.

It's cuz we don't generalize. *nods wisely*

One day my bangs were a little long and they were annoying me. She picked up on the fact that I kept fussing with them and asked me if I liked bangs. She brought it up over and over for the next few months, everytime I saw her. Any personal information I've shared like I don't like flip flops, or wearing big heavy earrings, or that the third hole in my left ear lobe keeps closing up, she plays back again and again and again.

So she wants to be sure you are still you?

Honestly, these kids fascinate me! And then I look at my own personality and remember things from my childhood with fresh eyes and think, wow, there's some of me on that spectrum!

I have a suspicion that everyone good with spectrum kids IS a spectrum kid.

For all the talk about "empathy" and "theory of mind", NTs aren't any good at knowing how autistics think. Those things only work if a person is already similar to you. So it's very limited and it's silly they put so much emphasis on it when what it says is that you recognize your clan and you recognize enemies. Isn't that all those are, biologically?

 

[Farmfresh]

I have a suspicion that everyone good with spectrum kids IS a spectrum kid.

NOPE not ME!

Strictly Bi-Polar with a dash of Attachment Disorder mixed in for good measure. I actually relate FAR better to kids with behavior disorders, mental illness, and conduct disorders - but I am learning lots about the Autism animal as well.

 

[abifae]

LOL!! Auties have attachment issues and mood swings How do you know you aren't one of us. bwhahahaha

 

[Henrietta23]

I had just written this long winded personal observation of my childhood character traits that could lead one to see me on the spectrum and I dumped it!! I'm still figuring out this whole laptop thing. I'll spare you all and not retype it!

 

[abifae]

retype it!!!

i wanna read it!!!



tell me tell me tell me!!!!!!!!!

 

[Denim Deb]

Lots of times, if you hit the edit, then undo "buttons" you can find what you've just lost. I've done that myself-which is why I know this.

 

[Henrietta23]

hmmm, I'll have to try that. I'm finding with this thing that if the cursor hovers in one place too long, over an icon or whatever it will actually do that function whether I want it to or not. So annoying!
Sorry, Abi, I didn't see your request before I went to bed. I will type it up later. I need a shower now. Ick....

 

[Wifezilla]

I do that big_smile Bring stuff up over and over and over until I'm sure I understand it right and then bring it up over and over again to try and see what other rules it affects.

It's cuz we don't generalize.

Max does this Of course with my ADD, that is the closest thing to torture you can go to me without breaking out the water board...do the same thing over and over and over...



I had a hard time explaining to max that just because he hears something doesn't mean I heard it too. He gets mad at me if I ask him to repeat something. And he mumbles!!!