How do a person's political views relate to self sufficiency?

[Big Daddy]

I have mixed feelings about the Patriot Act. I can understand the need to more easily monitor communications, but right now they pretty much have carte blanche. Then the suspension of Habius Corpus. It starts sounding like what the Gestapo and the GBU used to do. Someone points finger and you disappear. I know it has so far been used on suspected terrorist, but what if they get something wrong. Sometimes I think Obama does stuff just to appear strong to the right.

 

[me&thegals]

Executive orders..... here is on for us SS folk...did you know it is a federal offense to eat food you raise, or how about transporting a tomato over the fence to your neighbor, it's a federal offense to trade Heirloom seeds........still want more government in your life???

Welcome, papas34!

You will definitely need to state a source for this one. As pretty much of us do all these things all the time, I'm pretty sure we would have heard about this...

If you are referring to various bills that go through Congress and affect organic growing, bills can come and go all the time without being signed into law.

 

[me&thegals]

Everything effects others. I want the government to leave me alone, but I expect it to protect me from robbers and killers. That expectation creates the requirement for government to interfere in the rights of those who wish to kill and rape to do so.

This should not be seen as an either or proposition.
The key should not be in fighting over which freedom we're talking about so much as in recognizing that BOTH are types of freedom which people deserve. And as with all things, moderation is the key.

Excellent! It's a rare person who wants COMPLETE gov't nonintervention.

 

[me&thegals]

May I ask why do we even need to have this discussion?

I don't mean to be rude, I know ya'll wanted to keep this polite, etc., but to be completely honest, I've been wanting to avoid this site completely lately (even without the power outtage) because I am so tired and SICK of all the political threads and comparisons between conservatives and liberals, etc.

Literally. Every time I come on here, it's all I can do to stay on the site. I feel physically ill and want to vomit everytime a new thread referencing politics pops up.

I'm scared enough about the way our government is going, and I come on here to share and talk about living an SS lifestyle. I know we've had both political and religious threads here, and sometimes they go well sometimes they don't, but I'm sick of them.

I'd rather read through a bunch of difference in religions threads than see one more political thread pop up.

Could we please, maybe even for just ONE week (heck, I'll take one day if possible!) stick to topics that directly relate to what this forum was created for??

Oh yes, I realize I could avoid this thread or that thread, etc. but when you come on here and the first thread at the top of the page is a political one or one where slurs are being slung at one another, well, it makes me just not want to participate here anymore.

It's all I can do to drag myself on here to change the POW on Sundays, and as it is, I missed last Sunday.

Please, folks, it's not an election year. Could we please take a break from the political discussions?

I'm sorry to interrupt your conversation...Ok well, really, I'm not sorry, but I've tried to keep my fingers out of it.....so now I'll bow out and let you go back to your discussion while I go find myself a brown paper bag..............

May I ask why you bother opening and reading a thread that makes you want to vomit? Or, if you didn't read it, why you want to comment anyway?

I don't want to be rude, either, but when a thread makes me feel barfy I just avoid it. And feel free to take a break from the political threads on nonelection years. Apparently a few of us are quite interested in the discussion.

 

[ScottSD]

socialism
--------------------
Websters:
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

10 Ways that Liberal Socialism Makes People Poorer:
http://www.nikitas3.com/10_ways_that_liberal_socialism_m.htm

communism
----------------------
Websters:
1 a : a theory advocating elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2 capitalized a : a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d : communist systems collectively

capitalism
----------------------
Websters:
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

Capitalism is an economic and social system in which capital, the non-labor factors of production (also known as the means of production), is privately controlled; labor, goods and capital are traded in markets; and profits distributed to owners or invested in technologies and industries.

Compared to various forms of political collectivism, capitalism is usually still considered as individualistic since participation in these institutions is voluntary and an individual choice.

Collectivism is tied more to Socialism and Communism .........and Individualism is tied more to Capitalism:http://freedomkeys.com/collectivism.htm

collectivism
---------------------------
1 : a political or economic theory advocating collective control especially over production and distribution; also : a system marked by such control
2 : emphasis on collective rather than individual action or identity

individualism
---------------------------
1 a (1) : a doctrine that the interests of the individual are or ought to be ethically paramount; also : conduct guided by such a doctrine (2) : the conception that all values, rights, and duties originate in individuals b : a theory maintaining the political and economic independence of the individual and stressing individual initiative, action, and interests; also : conduct or practice guided by such a theory


Which of the above sounds the most like the one below?

selfsufficient
----------------------
1 : able to maintain oneself or itself without outside aid : capable of providing for one's (another word for individual ) own needs <a selfsufficient farm>
2 : having an extreme confidence in one's (there's that "one" word again )own ability or worth :


Now.....what has the direction has the government been heading in that last few years....ESPECIALLY the last 11 months?

 

[me&thegals]

There are huge degrees of self sufficiency. Scott, do you grow all your own food? Grow fiber to weave thread for your family's clothing? Drive a horse and homemade buggy? Use the Internet? NONE of us is "self sufficient." This is what I referred to earlier when I mentioned being bogged down by this term. We are all somewhere on a very huge continuum, but each of us wants to be MORE self sufficient than we used to be.

Personally, I'm thrilled to live in a democracy that allows me access to endless information to help me learn how to do many SS things. I enjoy capitalism when I have access to quality products for sale, each company competing for my business by low prices and good service. Neither my democracy or its capitalistic economic model are perfect, but I can reach a degree of self sufficiency within them.

But I also recognize that life/fate/luck is not the same for everyone and some people will die if they are not helped. We all help each other in some way or another. Some of us own businesses that employ people. Some of us are employees that keep businesses running well and providing secondary employment for other companies or necessary services for our customers. Some of us volunteer time in our communities, foster a child, help out in the schools or in myriad other ways use our own level of self sufficiency to give back.

 

[ScottSD]

Aww yes, I agree there are different levels.

But, do you see the associations in my previous post?

 

[me&thegals]

Yes, I do. I appreciate the brief definitions of each type of gov't. Of course, the arguments come in when we see differences in *what* exactly starts infringing on our rights as citizens. One person may believe that gov't bail-outs of the auto industry are a step towards socialism. Another may believe that subsidies and tariffs lean towards collectivism (while yet another believes they are essential to maintain our "capitalist" economy).

Devil's in the details, and interpretation.

 

[papas34]

I just got here on this post and I'm getting frustrated....

I have found the following to be sad, but true


Conservatives want to conserve the Constitution as written and as intended.
Progressives want to change it back and forth just to meet their whims.

 

[papas34]

Executive orders..... here is on for us SS folk...did you know it is a federal offense to eat food you raise, or how about transporting a tomato over the fence to your neighbor, it's a federal offense to trade Heirloom seeds........still want more government in your life???

Welcome, papas34!

Thanks for the Welcome everyone!!!


You will definitely need to state a source for this one. As pretty much of us do all these things all the time, I'm pretty sure we would have heard about this...

If you are referring to various bills that go through Congress and affect organic growing, bills can come and go all the time without being signed into law.

I was hoping others would jump on this one and help me out...it was early in Oboma's presidency that he did these things...I saw Gibbs answer a few ??s about these orders...they are not directed towards the home gardener, they are directed against the small farmers who use Farmer's Markets to get around government controls...we were having lots of people getting sick...our government felt they need to protect us by inspecting every tomato and controlling every seed......scary stuff to me.