I watched the documentary "Fat Head" ....

[abifae]

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[Wifezilla]

Just an FYI...

I often provide links to information when I say something that goes against traditional thinking. I think it gives people a point of reference. One or two links is by NO MEANS the total source of my information. I have been researching diet and nutrition for YEARS. I only started that research because all the traditional wisdom was not working and my health as deteriorating.

Finally finding the sources for the conventional thinking and being able to see how it went so wrong allowed me to research further and see what the alternative hypothesis was and where it came from. This then allowed me to make changes that resulted in not only weight loss for the first time in decades, but the reversal of my hypertension and avoiding type 2 diabetes.

I have already done things by the food pyramid, by going low fat, by cutting calories, by intense exercise (an hour a day for 2 years with NO weight loss and blood pressure that kept increasing)., vegetarianism, etc...

There seems to be an implication that people like me read a book and now we are brain washed zombies that blindly follow commands. Okkkayy...whatever. I will keep providing back up documentation. If people want to ignore it, that's just fine by me. The truth is out there

 

[hikerchick]

I am not disputing that what you are doing works for you, WZ. Clearly, you have some sort of metabolic problem whereby carbs wreak havoc with your system . I get that.

What I am saying, is that that doesn't mean carbs are toxins. it means you have an allergy or some kind of metabolic problem.

I would venture to say that most people in the world today eat carbs of some kind. I highly doubt that all of them are suffering from obesity, hypertension, diabetes, etc.

I personally know many healthy people who eat carbs. In fact, I don't know any healthy people who don't. It's all part of a sensible diet. Most people do not need to, nor should they, eliminate an entire food group. Clearly, those who are sensitive, should do what is best for them. But for the vast majority of the populations, carbohydrates are not toxic. They are food.

I just want to make sure we are clear on the difference.

 

[freemotion]

HC, all carbs are not created equal. The carbs that most people eat in "developed" countries are indeed toxic. It is insidious and the problems may not show up until middle age....then the problems are blamed on getting older! Combine that with a low-fat diet, devoid of saturated fats, full of veg oils and hydrogenated oils and fake foods and chemicals, and "healthy" people are not really healthy. We have a distorted definition of healthy nowadays.

Now, healthy carbs are vegetables, mostly, and "properly prepared" grains in moderation for those who can tolerate them. Sweet things from good sources, and also in moderation, even for those who can tolerate them.

I plan to make brownies and ice cream tonight! But there will be no HFCS, no white flour, no Crisco, no anti-freeze (they don't have to list all the chemicals in ice cream!), no MSG, no soy. The milk and eggs will be raw and from animals kept on pasture, so high in Vitamin A and D and balanced in the Omega oils. Our taste for sweetness has really changed, so there won't be the amount of sugar that the recipes call for.

Oh, wait, I was gonna make a pie. With lard, of course, and freshly ground wheat flour. Hmmm......which will it be?

We had lots of veggies at lunch (homemade soup, a small piece of leftover hominy cornbread, and veggies with kefir/onion dip) and will have Cobb salads for supper.

Plenty of good carbs, but far from the Standard American Diet. SAD for short.

 

[meriruka]

Picking apart facts or references from conventional thinking has helped make great strides in science, otherwise the world would still be flat and we'd be covered in leeches & bled when we were ill.

Picking apart unconventional references keeps the 'snake oil' out of the medicine cabinet and keeps us from committing suicide so we can join the aliens on Haley's comet as it passes by.

Pick apart everything you read & you'll eventually get to a place where you're comfortable with your conclusions. I guess we find out the answers for sure when it's over. Meantime, could be we are all right because we are all different.

Stepping down off soap box now and traveling to business meeting.......

 

[hikerchick]

HC, all carbs are not created equal. The carbs that most people eat in "developed" countries are indeed toxic. It is insidious and the problems may not show up until middle age....then the problems are blamed on getting older! Combine that with a low-fat diet, devoid of saturated fats, full of veg oils and hydrogenated oils and fake foods and chemicals, and "healthy" people are not really healthy. We have a distorted definition of healthy nowadays.

Now, healthy carbs are vegetables, mostly, and "properly prepared" grains in moderation for those who can tolerate them. Sweet things from good sources, and also in moderation, even for those who can tolerate them.

I plan to make brownies and ice cream tonight! But there will be no HFCS, no white flour, no Crisco, no anti-freeze (they don't have to list all the chemicals in ice cream!), no MSG, no soy. The milk and eggs will be raw and from animals kept on pasture, so high in Vitamin A and D and balanced in the Omega oils. Our taste for sweetness has really changed, so there won't be the amount of sugar that the recipes call for.

Oh, wait, I was gonna make a pie. With lard, of course, and freshly ground wheat flour. Hmmm......which will it be?

We had lots of veggies at lunch (homemade soup, a small piece of leftover hominy cornbread, and veggies with kefir/onion dip) and will have Cobb salads for supper.

Plenty of good carbs, but far from the Standard American Diet. SAD for short.

I agree with you 100% about the carbohydrates.

I just don't think a blanket indictment of carbs as "toxins" is accurate or warranted. Refined carbs? Well, that is a different story altogether.

Not sure I am with you on the saturated fats, but we are on the same page regarding refined carbs.

Lard- ugh. they make these donuts here in PA with lard once a year - fastnachts they call them - and the first one I ever tasted made me want to hurl. It tasted like meat! I find it aesthetically unpleasing. I would rather forego pie than make one with lard. But to each his own.

I don't think the wheel has stopped spinning yet regarding saturated vs unsaturated fats; but even my doctor recommends against refined carbs.

 

[Wifezilla]

The carbs that most people eat in "developed" countries are indeed toxic. It is insidious and the problems may not show up until middle age....then the problems are blamed on getting older! Combine that with a low-fat diet, devoid of saturated fats, full of veg oils and hydrogenated oils and fake foods and chemicals, and "healthy" people are not really healthy. We have a distorted definition of healthy nowadays.

Exactly.

Modern foods are hardly foods at all. The are new, highly processed, and documented to be dangerous. The amount of total fat consumed per year is going down and has been for about 30 years. The amount of carbohydrates continues to climb. So does the obesity rate, the cancer rate, the heart disease rate, the rate of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and children, the diabetes rate (with type 2 becoming more common in younger and younger children).

So it isn't a case of just a few of us with allergies.

 

[me&thegals]

Picking apart facts or references from conventional thinking has helped make great strides in science, otherwise the world would still be flat and we'd be covered in leeches & bled when we were ill.

Picking apart unconventional references keeps the 'snake oil' out of the medicine cabinet and keeps us from committing suicide so we can join the aliens on Haley's comet as it passes by.

Pick apart everything you read & you'll eventually get to a place where you're comfortable with your conclusions. I guess we find out the answers for sure when it's over. Meantime, could be we are all right because we are all different.

Stepping down off soap box now and traveling to business meeting.......

I think this is an excellent point. Like politics, , being strongly convicted in one's opinions does not make them irresistible to others, no matter how thoroughly they may have been researched.

WZ, I guess some of this has been directed towards you, but I think questions about your thoughts on diet give you a really excellent chance to explain some of your research.

I find it confusing that dietary knowledge changes so often. For me, I'm trying to find middle ground in *types* of foods, moderation in all foods, and just an elimination of as many chemicals and processed foods as I can handle.

 

[hikerchick]

The carbs that most people eat in "developed" countries are indeed toxic. It is insidious and the problems may not show up until middle age....then the problems are blamed on getting older! Combine that with a low-fat diet, devoid of saturated fats, full of veg oils and hydrogenated oils and fake foods and chemicals, and "healthy" people are not really healthy. We have a distorted definition of healthy nowadays.

Exactly.

Modern foods are hardly foods at all. The are new, highly processed, and documented to be dangerous. The amount of total fat consumed per year is going down and has been for about 30 years. The amount of carbohydrates continues to climb. So does the obesity rate, the cancer rate, the heart disease rate, the rate of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and children, the diabetes rate (with type 2 becoming more common in younger and younger children).

So it isn't a case of just a few of us with allergies.

you never said anything about refined carbs that I could see.

You said that carbs were toxins. Unless I misunderstood you, that is an indictment of an entire food group. And I have to say that the fact that carbohydrate consumption is climbing along with all of those medical conditions does not necessarily prove a cause and effect relationship. The amount of exercise that children do has declined markedly. You can't believe that this has nothing to do with the increase in childhood diabetes.

I am not arguing in favor of modern foods. I am saying that carbohydrates are not toxins.

 

[me&thegals]

The carbs that most people eat in "developed" countries are indeed toxic. It is insidious and the problems may not show up until middle age....then the problems are blamed on getting older! Combine that with a low-fat diet, devoid of saturated fats, full of veg oils and hydrogenated oils and fake foods and chemicals, and "healthy" people are not really healthy. We have a distorted definition of healthy nowadays.

Exactly.

Modern foods are hardly foods at all. The are new, highly processed, and documented to be dangerous. The amount of total fat consumed per year is going down and has been for about 30 years. The amount of carbohydrates continues to climb. So does the obesity rate, the cancer rate, the heart disease rate, the rate of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and children, the diabetes rate (with type 2 becoming more common in younger and younger children).

So it isn't a case of just a few of us with allergies.

They may be related, or maybe it's one of 1000 other variables out there. Or maybe 1 of those other variables PLUS increasing carbs or 1 of those 1000 PLUS decreasing fats. You know? It seems pretty hard to nail down a specific one and pin it all on that.

Personally, I would be more apt to pin it to decreased activity, increased workhours, soda consumption, crap food consumption (not specifically carbs, but just processed foods in general).