MyKidLuvsGreenEgz .. .. COLORADO IS BURNING

[MyKidLuvsGreenEgz]

Thanks everyone.

I posted this on another thread but thought I'd put it here too:

==================

Bad news: FIL died.

Good news: inheritance will allow us to finally fence our 2 acres and set up paddocks.

So, here's what we're thinking.

We have mini goats and chickens. Wondering if we can put mini cattle and mini pigs in there too? On the back acre, we'd have:

Pen one:
2 mini girl goats (have)
various chickens (have)
2 mini girl cattle
2 mini girl pigs

Pen two:
1 mini boy goat, buck (have)
1 mini boy goat, wether (have)
various chickens (have)
1 mini boy cattle, bull
1 mini boy pig, boar (?)

Okay, obviously I have more research to do, but on our road to self-sufficiency, we want to provide all of our meat needs. Can't imagine not having hamburgers, steaks, ham and bacon. Butcher the calves and raise the piglets to butcher too.

From time to time, we'd let the cattle on to the front acre when it needs "mowing". Maybe even lend them out!

Also, during our trip, we found out that a grain called MILO is easy to grow, drought tolerant, and perfect for goats and chickens (needs to be cracked and possibly soaked for other livestock). Already planning on increasing our sunflower and corn production, and possibly add wheat.

Thoughts?

 

[pinkfox]

if your planning on doing pigs for meat id go with a calmer full sized heritige breed rather than minis, PBs and minis dont provide enough meat to realy be worth it honestly...
if your hopign to sell as pets however the minis are the way to go.
id personally look into some heritidge breeds
my personal choice is the Gloucestershire Old Spot...
but i also have had very good experience with berkshires and tamworths...im talking heritidge lines, not lines bred for FAST meat growth.
heritidge breeds will be harder to get ahold of and they grow slower overall, but if your planning on keeping the pigs to adult hood to breed your own meat pigs, these heritidge breeds tend to have easier going temperments, and you not only have the meat market, but youll get more for live piglets for breeding too.

personally if your planning on keeping a single sow, i wouldnt do a boar...id find a nice growing hertidge girl and then find a local person with some meat hogs and breed her to any ole meaty for butcher piglets.

if your planning on breeding purebreds, id go with at least 2 sows to 1 boar, heritidge breeds tend to do well on dirt and forrage, so tend to be easier on the pocjet book for feed than the faster growing comercial meat pigs.
i wouldnt house pigs with the other animals, instead id put up a sty and then rotate pens over wherever you plan to grow your veggies each year. pigs are AMAZING plows and fertilizers...

as for the mini cattle, instead of spending the kind of money you will on "minis" id look into the dexter, they are an amazing meat AND milk breed, very small naturally and generally good mothers, easy birthers and grow at a nice rate.

im pretty sure cows could be kept with the goats, but the bull would probably depend on his temperment, i knwo people who keep their bulls with buck goats with sucess, i knwo others where the bull has to be 100% serperated form any other animal. personally any bull with that kind of attitude wouldnt make it to breeding on a small homestead, theres no room for that kind of attitude in my opinion, but you may feel diferently.



so honestly, id house a couple of dexter cows with your goaty girls, they will give you milk if you want it, and their calves (breed her to your own dex bull if you can, if not a local) can be sold or you can keep a couple (raise the bull calves with the goats) for the freezer

and id get a heritidge full sized sow (assuming your looking for good meat/lard pigs to raise to butcher eventually), id put her up in a perminent sty and then put her in movable electric during the day wherever you want land cleared, fertilized and plowed lol. my grandfather did his GOS sow on 1/4 acre plots, her sty itself was about 10x20 and included a 10x10 house, but each day he let her out into movable electric, one year shed live on lot 1, pretty much tearing it up while he grew on lot 2, in the fall shed also get a day or 2 per week in his little orchard where she got to clean up all the windfall apples she could eat, the following year shed be put on lot 2 and lot 1 (which shed spent the previous year plowing and fertilizing) was planted with the kitchen garden. their garden grew like CRAZY, they never had a problem with growing anything and he never had to plow or till, each spring it was pretyt much ready to go as soon as the plants were. plenty of worms too because the soil was constantly being turned.
breed her to a local meaty (or do AI its very easy and usually cheaper and safer than keeping your own boar) and keep a couple of piglets for the freezer each year. (sell the rest, even cross bred heritidge breeds sell well)

if you dont do your own bull, each year id bring in a couple of market lambs (ram lambs) and raise them for the freezer too! they could happily live with the male goats.

if your not doign a bull or boar, you could easily give the mini goat boys less space (split the area into 1/3rds and give the mini boys 1/3rd of the space, giving your producing females alot more space.

 

[Farmfresh]

In this day and age almost no small farmer keeps his own bull. They eat all year long, are hard to keep fenced and controlled and are a general pain in the rump for one small donation a year. When you are breeding one or even up to 9 or 10 cows the cheapest and most cost effective way in artificial insemination. For $10 or $20 a "straw" you have the equivalent of maintaining a bull for a year.

If you want to be most Self Sufficient learn to A.I. your animals yourself! Even my 13 year old cousin could do it and that gives you a HUGE selection of high quality breeding stock from which to choose. Raising a registered calf instead of a mixed blood one could also offer more income, by selling any resulting heifers.

Same goes for the goats or any planned sheep. I would either A.I. them or simply load them in the car and drive them to be bred. I would NOT waste my valuable pasture space on housing a male for breeding if I only had 2 acres.

Are you planning on milking the minis or just eating them? One dairy cow, even a mini can produce LOTS of milk - 1 1/2 to 2 gallons per day. Unless you need 4 gallons of milk a day I would suggest only keeping one mini and maybe the baby from that current year until it is butchered. Cows, like horses need company, but if you have goats or sheep that will work for a companion.

If you are planning on eating the cows only I would probably buy a bottle calf or two each year or even a yearling and then grass feed it to butcher size. Same with the pig. It is most cost effective to buy a couple of weaners and then finish them.

One thing I always do is try to figure out how much of what product I will need in the end. It helps me determine the use of my limited space and my time.

Currently I raise all of my own chicken and turkey meat and eggs. I was raising rabbits, but found a 4-H girl who will sell me her cull show rabbits for $5.00 each and that is cheaper than I can do it if you consider my time. I do buy them "on the hoof" and butcher myself.

I have also made some other connections in the community. I have so far found a woman who raises heritage pigs organically for her own consumption she always raises several extra since pigs do better with company and she sells the extra. I buy them from her and she delivers them to the processor for me. Same thing with beef and sheep. I have spent time and found folks locally who are willing to sell me animals that are raised like I would raise them.

My beef lady used to have dairy cows, now she has a small cow -calf operation and usually sells the weaned calves each year to another person who feed lots them. I talked to her a bit and found out that she keeps her herd on grass with just a fist-full of grain each day when she checks the herd. She is very like minded as far as antibiotics and other "additives" are concerned. Now she picks me out a calf (and usually I get the best steer since it is a more personal transaction) and I pay her approximately half down. This helps her with her up-front costs. When she "ships" the rest of the calves, usually the following spring, mine gets left on pasture until the pasture starts to go in the late summer. Then she hauls it as a "long yearling" to the butcher when I finish paying for the animal by live weight.

I have found this solution to be better for me that trying to cram too many animals on too small of space. BTW we are working with about 3 acres of my D1's land and she has 1 pony and 1 sheep weather on it and STILL needs to feed hay most of the year.

 

[Bubblingbrooks]

FF makes a good point about space, grass and hay.
Its very important to your local community to work with others.
Do what you do best, and co-op with others.
If you want a super course in proper pasturing, start here http://matronofhusbandry.wordpress.com/2010/12/12/a-sliver-of-keyline-pie/
If you just put several animals on your two acres, and hope for the best, your pasture will become "ill" and never grow to its full potential.
And you will be stuck buy and feeding lots of hay year round.

And ditto on not keeping a bull. Pain in the tuckus is putting it mildly. Dangerous is heading in the right direction.

 

[MyKidLuvsGreenEgz]

I am so dumb
dumb
dumb
dumb
dumb

What on earth am I thinking? Yeah, I'd LOVE a constant source of beef and bacon when TSHTF and grocery stores are closed. (The main reason I wanted to have the male of the species: cattle and pork) BUT do I truly want to sacrifice space to raise them when I could raise a whole lot more plant-foods, like nuts, seeds, berries, tree fruits, brambles, veggies, etc. ... ?

I do all the work now. Hubby says now that we'll have a small tractor (his father's) that he'll be able to plow and help do more, like set up irritagation systems. Not really sure if he would. Maybe a tiny bit more but still, all of the outside and inside works falls on me, and probably still will.

Trees and bushes and brambles and plants don't take as much day-to-day care.

Perhaps Hubby, being lactose intolerant, can handle RAW butter and milk so we can raise mini cattle instead of goats? Maybe we'll have to taste goat meat to see if we can "pretend" it's beef? See if we can raise our goats to provide meat for our table AND milk? Maybe I can buy ground beef and bacon and ham when it's on sale and cook and can it?

Perhaps, if we can do those things, we'll just increase our little goat herd, add meat rabbits in the garage, and plant lots of trees, bushes and such.

Like I said ... dumb.

 

[colowyo0809]

I am so dumb
dumb
dumb
dumb
dumb

What on earth am I thinking? Yeah, I'd LOVE a constant source of beef and bacon when TSHTF and grocery stores are closed. (The main reason I wanted to have the male of the species: cattle and pork) BUT do I truly want to sacrifice space to raise them when I could raise a whole lot more plant-foods, like nuts, seeds, berries, tree fruits, brambles, veggies, etc. ... ?

I do all the work now. Hubby says now that we'll have a small tractor (his father's) that he'll be able to plow and help do more, like set up irritagation systems. Not really sure if he would. Maybe a tiny bit more but still, all of the outside and inside works falls on me, and probably still will.

Trees and bushes and brambles and plants don't take as much day-to-day care.

Perhaps Hubby, being lactose intolerant, can handle RAW butter and milk so we can raise mini cattle instead of goats? Maybe we'll have to taste goat meat to see if we can "pretend" it's beef? See if we can raise our goats to provide meat for our table AND milk? Maybe I can buy ground beef and bacon and ham when it's on sale and cook and can it?

Perhaps, if we can do those things, we'll just increase our little goat herd, add meat rabbits in the garage, and plant lots of trees, bushes and such.

Like I said ... dumb.

NOT DUMB! just carried away and excited by the possibilities. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as you also accept the reality of your situation. Never call yourself dumb, or you will start to believe it, and so will others.

 

[Bubblingbrooks]

I am so dumb
dumb
dumb
dumb
dumb

What on earth am I thinking? Yeah, I'd LOVE a constant source of beef and bacon when TSHTF and grocery stores are closed. (The main reason I wanted to have the male of the species: cattle and pork) BUT do I truly want to sacrifice space to raise them when I could raise a whole lot more plant-foods, like nuts, seeds, berries, tree fruits, brambles, veggies, etc. ... ?

I do all the work now. Hubby says now that we'll have a small tractor (his father's) that he'll be able to plow and help do more, like set up irritagation systems. Not really sure if he would. Maybe a tiny bit more but still, all of the outside and inside works falls on me, and probably still will.

Trees and bushes and brambles and plants don't take as much day-to-day care.

Perhaps Hubby, being lactose intolerant, can handle RAW butter and milk so we can raise mini cattle instead of goats? Maybe we'll have to taste goat meat to see if we can "pretend" it's beef? See if we can raise our goats to provide meat for our table AND milk? Maybe I can buy ground beef and bacon and ham when it's on sale and cook and can it?

Perhaps, if we can do those things, we'll just increase our little goat herd, add meat rabbits in the garage, and plant lots of trees, bushes and such.

Like I said ... dumb.

NOT DUMB! just carried away and excited by the possibilities. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as you also accept the reality of your situation. Never call yourself dumb, or you will start to believe it, and so will others.

Ditto.
Get your property fenced in for now.
Grow the garden space, and work on your health.
Network with others, as you grow your space slowly.
It is very easy to do too much, too fast, and get burned out.
Its a very common issue.

 

[pinkfox]

certainly not dumb!

its very easy to get carried away with all the possibilities.

if you realy want a small cow, get 1 small cow, put her with your goats and see how it goes, if you find you prefer her milk over your goats you may want to sell the goats and get a second small cow...

give goat a try but make sure its doen properly, i REALY like goat meat but the first time i tried it it was horrible, overcooked and very chewey...
but then i tried it in a mild coconut curry and wow!...the key with goat is learning how to cook it i think, its not beef, but its certainly yummy!

you may decide you want to keep the 1 cow and the goats, you may prefer the goats and sell the cow off after her first calves...ect.

once youve decided that then the next year mabe try raising a couple of pigs for meat, you may HATE raising pigs and decide you never want to do it again, or that you only want to keep pigs long enough to get them to butcher weight, or you may LOVE keeping pigs and decide you just have to have them on your homestead ect...

go 1 type of critter at a time and dont be afraid to say "hey this isnt what i was looking for, the nice thing with livestock is anything can be butchered for your table or sold on to someone else.

given youve got small acreage you might want to look into raising rabbit and cortnux quail for meat...i dont think theres anything much more self sufficient than pasture/arc raised rabbits lol. put them in movable arcs (or tractors) with a wire floor and move them around your acreage, wire means no digging, and there great little lawnmowers who will produce lots of healthy yummy meat and lovely pelts too!
and quail can be kept in very tiny spaces and produce very easy meat and more eggs per lb of feed than any chicken ever will.

if your dreaming of pigs and cows, certainly give them a try, but do 1 at a time and increase only if you LOVE keeping that animal.

 

[MyKidLuvsGreenEgz]

Good advice. Thanks guys.

One of the many things Hubby is bringing back from his dad's farm is an upright freezer. I'm planning on stocking it full with our chickens, hams that I get on sale around thanksgiving, bacon any time I find it for a good price, and ground beef when it's on sale.

Now ... gotta get a solar panel and battery, right?!?!

Really, thanks for the head check.

Plus, now that we'll be making better pens and paddocks, we can put a set of chickens with each set of mini goats so only one watering set-up per pen! Woohoo! That will also lighten my load. And having our bantams in our garage will also help.

For goat/chicken combo: Gonna get a shed, and add a little something to the top 2/3 of the shed for the chickens, so that the goats can't get up there and eat their food. Will have their nesting boxes, feed area, and roosts. Will also allow us to better manage kidding (more kids due early December). Maybe cut a hole and add a pop-door with a ramp to the ground. Won't even be giving food to the chickens in the warmer months since they'll have a LOT of free-ranging territory (well, more than they have now).




ETA: Thinking about going back to quail but in my experience, they just don't have enough personality for me to want to care for them. I love my chickens. Have the goats. Will have rabbits. Just wasn't sure I could do without beef and pork. But like I wrote above, thinking I can fill that upright freezer pretty well!

The cow thing might be a mute point if my lactose-intolerant hubby can't handle the cow milk raw either.

 

[dragonlaurel]

Get some raw milk somewhere and also some raw milk cheese. Try them with hubby. If he digests it well- then cows might work for you. Jerseys or Guernseys are supposed to be really good and easier to digest.
Try goat milk and goat cheese too, since many people digest them better.
If you are deciding about meat goats- try some goat meat too. Get recipes made for goat so it's a fair test.