Ok, so talk to me, please, food guru's - calorie counting etc.

[Wifezilla]

The GI and GL index have issues. Don't get me wrong, following the GI/GL index is a far superior diet than what most people eat, but there are problems...particularly when it comes to items high in fructose.

Because of this I do count carbs. I also think many people should count carbs who don't. If you have a personal or family history of ANY blood sugar/insulin related illness, you NEED TO COUNT CARBS!

Those illnesses include...
Obesity
High Blood Pressure
Diabetes
Gout
Acne
PCOD
Heart disease
Stroke
Alzheimer's
High triglycerides
Arthritis
other cholesterol issues
and Cancer


No you don't have to obsessively write them down or chart them every day for the rest of your life, but you should spend a couple of months at the beginning and then occasionally revisit your carb counts.

 

[Dace]

Wifey, interesting.... So aside from steering clear of the obvious carby foods, you are concerned about fruit sugars or even general veggies?

 

[Wifezilla]

Not so much veggies, but certainly fruit. The metabolic pathways fructose takes is very interesting. It is looking to be responsible for a LOT of metabolic syndrome cases as well as increased incidence of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease in children. While a lot of the problem is HFCS, regular fructose from fruit in high doses is still hard on the body.

"There has been a "cloud" over the health benefits of fructose added to processed foods over the last few decades. Food manufacturers have been adding pure fructose to foods in the quest to lower the glycaemic index (GI) of the food because fructose does not affect insulin production therefore is considered to be a low GI sugar (this is contrast to glucose which does raise insulin levels). The food industry have also been adding fructose in the form of corn syrup (popular in the United States) or sucrose (this is half fructose) to foods, especially low fat/diet foods to improve flavour. There is emerging evidence that this may be making the obesity epidemic even worse, starting with damage to our liver cells, the hepatocytes.
The only organ in your body that can take up fructose is your liver and this is where the problem begins. In contrast, glucose can be taken up by every organ in the body, only 20% of glucose load ends up at your liver - the rest is metabolised by muscles, brain, kidneys, heart etc. .

Fructose increases uric acid which in turn increases blood pressure and causes gout (where uric acid crystals are deposited in joints)

Fructose increases phosphate depletion of the hepatocyte which ultimately causes an increase in uric acid. Uric acid is an inhibitor of nitric oxide - nitric oxide is your naturally occurring blood pressure lowerer.

Fructose increases fat production in the liver (also known as denovo lipogenesis) which in turn increases blood fats like cholesterol and triglycerides (glucose does not do this) and liver fat (which could result in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease). In fact fructose is being metabolised via the same pathway as alcohol and is actually damaging your liver in the the same way as alcohol. Fructose causes deposition of fat within the liver so it is actually like alcohol and alcohol is like a fat. So in contrast to glucose, it can be said that fructose behaves like a fat.

Fructose increases inflammation which in turn increases insuln levels in the long term: fructose initiates an enzyme called Junk one in the liver which stimulates the inflammation pathway. This in turn stops the insulin receptor in your liver from working resulting in higher insulin levels in the body (pancreas responds to this situation by pumping out more insulin in the hope to get the insulin working) . Eventually insulin resistance sets in where your insulin receptors are no longer responding to the excessive amounts of insulin and thus less glucose gets into the cells and more remains in the blood (this is when diabetes is diagnosed). High insulin levels stimulate the conversion of sugar to fat which means you will be storing more fat in the liver (which could result in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease) and more fat in fat cells, especially around the abdomen and internal organs (resulting in abdominal/visceral obesity).

Fructose doesn't raise your insulin in the short term because there's no fructose receptor on your beta cell in your pancreas which produces insulin but there is a receptor for glucose (fat also does not increase insulin production). However, in the long term fructose will raise insulin due to the effects on inflammation in the liver which in turn can make you insulin resistant (mentioned above). The World Cancer Research Fund latest report recommends a reduction in sugar dense drinks and fruit juices. http://www.wcrf.org/home/recommendations.lasso

Bottom line: A low fat diet containing processed sugar dense foods is really a high fat diet because fructose (in sugar) behaves like a fat. We were not designed to eat a lot of refined sugars, we're supposed to be eating our carbohydrate, particularly our fructose, with high fibre in unprocessed foods like fruit and vegetables. If you are trying to lose weight, lower your blood pressure, blood fats or fatty liver reduce your intake of sugars/fructose in processed foods that do not contain fibre (like soft drinks, fruit juices, sweet yoghurts, cakes, biscuits, fructose sweetened protein drinks etc) even if the label says low GI."
http://www.healthyeatingclub.org/info/articles/body-shape/fructose.htm

More
http://dukechronicle.com/article/study-links-fructose-intake-liver-damge
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081209221742.htm
http://www.diabeteshealth.com/read/2007/05/18/5198/liquid-fructose-gives-ratty-a-fatty-liver/

Now I do eat fruit, but I really do treat it as "Nature's Candy". I eat it occasionally and sparingly. With summer coming on there will be cantaloupe and an occasional slice of watermelon eaten. Usually I stick to berries though.

 

[abifae]

Now there are some people like Wifezilla and Abifae who need to really limit all carbs, but that is not the case for *most* who are looking to lose weight. Now if you follow the suggestions that we have given here and you are just not losing weight after several weeks then perhaps it is time to look at your intake of good carbs.

So it is important to be clear there are good carbs and bad carbs.

There's limit and then there is LIMIT lol.

I don't think it's healthy for anyone to eat over 100 carbs in a day. And those carbs should definitely be the lower GI ones. Leafy greens, nuts, cabbage, etc.

There's no reason for most people to be below 50 though. If you have severe health issues, sure, but i am 60-100 depending on the time of month LOL!

The tricky thing with the GI is that it doesn't count how ripe a food is (and foods change GI tremendously depending on ripeness) nor what you are eating it with (certain foods enhance or drop GI in other foods). But it's a great baseline. Most of the lower GI foods are also lower in carbs

Spinach is a great food. Gnawing on sugar cane not so much, even if you end up with the same number of calories lol. So yes, definitely better and worse carbs for you!!

The issue with fruit, for me, is that it doesn't spike insulin per se, but it still raises blood sugar. And most of it ends up as liver fat LOL. My liver has MORE than enough issues functioning as it is so I try to avoid everything that is dangerous to the liver.

And once again, that moderation thing. I eat fruit. I eat berries on a fairly regular basis. I nom melons like CRAZY all summer lol. But I eat fruit (other than melon lol) that is lower in sugar/fructose.

I don't eat the starchier or more sweet veggies either. No potatoes. Low on other tubers, but parsnips are the sugariest I'm careful with tomatoes and carrots (ie I eat them in very small amounts). I avoid legumes (but I loves me my peas!! in cream with feta and mint...)...

So, once again, it's down to moderation. Are garbanzo beans healthier than a slice of white bread? Certainly, since there are actual nutrients in the beans. But if you eat so many of any carb that you create insulin issues, you're still going to end up insulin resistant

/end abi's diet lecture

edited for spelling & punctuation

 

[Javamama]

I'm still hungry. I think my body doesn't work the same way yours does Dace. Gotta go find me some more fat Aside from those few chips I have had veggies, cream, cheese, nuts, and avocado. A whole avocado. Hasn't put a dent in the hunger. Protein doesn't really appeal to me right now. Maybe it's hormones at play.

 

[Dace]

I have had period of time like that too Java, hang in there you will find a balance.

I seem to recall when cutting out the sugar and simple carbs, I was REALLY hungry, then I started a feed bag and that took care of it. In case you don't remember a 'feed bag' is a sandwich sized ziplock filled with cut veggies.
I took it with me in the car picking up the kids and mindlessly munched....I say mindlessly, but the truth is I gagged over it....but a large volume in your belly does get rid of those hunger pangs.

 

[Javamama]

Thanks Dace, it helps to know it's not just my body being weird. I'll give it a few days to see if the hunger tapers off. I had a huge salad and 1/2 cup of whole wheat spaghetti with a load of meat sauce and it's gone now.

I believe I kept my carbs pretty darn low today, yay! At least I'm not having any cravings or detox since I have been lower carb for awhile (that's compared to the SAD but not as low as you all). The hunger threw me.

 

[Wifezilla]

Your body does go through an adjustment period. I ate like CRAZY when I first switched to low carb.

 

[abifae]

Apparently having two days of an off diet (I ran out of cream and have been finishing odds and ends of leftovers, no real meals, lower on calories, protein, AND fat)...leaves my psychotic and suicidal. not depressed, though.

Bought food today. And going over my budget, I have to tighten up for the impending slow season at work. So! IF I wanna continue eating healthy (dur) I am switching to only organ meats and whole chickens (so I can afford organic still LOL), and only shop sales for veggies. If it isn't marked down we won't get it.

I'm HOPING this can let me stay on my healthier regime without digging into savings to afford it

 

[Henrietta23]

The hunger does go away. I can't remember the last time I felt hungry.