Sufficient Self's Bible Study Group

[MarylandFutureFarmGuy]

Are you saying the Mitzvah (commandment) that says not to muzzle a beast, while it is working in produce which it can eat and enjoy (deut 25.4) is related back to the ten? Many of the Mitzvot are related back, and at the same time, many are not.


Messianic Jew's become tricky....According to mainstream Judaism, It is not Judaism at all. Perhaps that would be insulting to your cousins, but I think you may agree that the contradictions are obvious.


Edit: Perhaps none of us are perfect, but I think we can all strive to be the best we can be. I don't think any Jew has followed all 613 Mitzvot, however, all Jew's have the capacity to try.

 

[Wannabefree]

Are you saying the Mitzvah (commandment) that says not to muzzle a beast, while it is working in produce which it can eat and enjoy (deut 25.4) is related back to the ten? Many of the Mitzvot are related back, and at the same time, many are not.

Well kind of, yeah. If you muzzle a beast while it stomps out the grain, the possibilities of injuring it, or it dying as a result of the abuse long term are there, which goes back to not committing murder. The original commandment doesn't specify, killing immediately, or abusing and killing something over time. So yes, they do all/most seem to relate back to the original ten in some way or other. Most of them that are not the original ten, are pretty well common sense anyway. The ten covers a LOT of ground in and of themselves. I think the rest are basic variations of those ten.

To put it into perspective, if I tell my kid to not run in the house, then I have to tell my kid to not run in the livingroom, because somehow in her thick head she didn't understand the livingroom IS the house

I haven't checked every one of them, but I stand by it being my basic belief that they all do in some form relate back to the original ten.

Feel free to prove me wrong. I just can't think of any one that doesn't somehow relate back.

 

[MarylandFutureFarmGuy]

Yes, but it is the Killing of a person, not an animal.
I think you guys may have a slightly different 10 commandments btw...


can you explain to me how all the things on keeping kosher relate to the 10 commandments? Unless there is an eleventh commandment saying "Thou shall not eat Bacon," I don't see how it could relate back....

 

[Mr.Andersson]

I eat Turkey Bacon !

 

[Wannabefree]

It doesn't specify the murder of a person or animal. It simply says murder. I believe murder and killing are two seperate things. Killing is for harvesting game, or self defense, during wars, or things of that nature. Murder, is through anger, non productive ending of a life with no specific purpose other than to end the life. Look at Exodus 21:12 on the Law Concerning Violence. It's the commandment redefined.

Kosher foods could relate back to having no other gods. If God commands it, no matter the reason, I'd think one should follow the command. Are we sure Abraham didn't partake of "non kosher" foods? I never thought about that, but there was no command concerning it for Abraham. Anyway. The kosher foods is strictly Jewish though, so I really didn't even think of that one.

 

[Wannabefree]

I eat Turkey Bacon !

It's goooooooooood aint it I like turkey bacon too Sometimes.

 

[MarylandFutureFarmGuy]

It doesn't specify the murder of a person or animal. It simply says murder. I believe murder and killing are two seperate things. Killing is for harvesting game, or self defense, during wars, or things of that nature. Murder, is through anger, non productive ending of a life with no specific purpose other than to end the life. Look at Exodus 21:12 on the Law Concerning Violence. It's the commandment redefined.

Kosher foods could relate back to having no other gods. If God commands it, no matter the reason, I'd think one should follow the command. Are we sure Abraham didn't partake of "non kosher" foods? I never thought about that, but there was no command concerning it for Abraham. Anyway. The kosher foods is strictly Jewish though, so I really didn't even think of that one.

In Judaism, it does, and I believe Christianity is similar on that term. The hebrew root indicates that it is cold blooded murder, not like war, etc which is justifiably killing. You can kill an animal all you want (well, as long as you don't do it needlessly)

abraham was the first jew, however the torah was not given then.

 

[Beekissed]

How wonderful it is to have a faith that isn't dependent on elaborate rituals to do right....belief in Jesus Christ as God's only Son and His sacrifice for our sins relieves us of trying to work our way to Heaven or into God's presence.

My truth is that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no man cometh unto the Father except through Him. Therein lies my hope and faith and no amount of ritualistic obeying of laws about foods, sabbath's or other works can buy that audience with the Father, God.

I don't have to have curiosity about other religions or teachings because I believe that the words of Jesus Christ are the truth and the only truth and these I will follow and attempt to obey...but if I cannot always obey, I am forgiven of this.

One could debate the reasons why of each belief system until the cows come home but that territory was covered way back in Jesus' day and He answered these questions already. They've been debated all the years hence and His words still remain the only answer, as far as I am concerned.

 

[Wannabefree]

It doesn't specify the murder of a person or animal. It simply says murder. I believe murder and killing are two seperate things. Killing is for harvesting game, or self defense, during wars, or things of that nature. Murder, is through anger, non productive ending of a life with no specific purpose other than to end the life. Look at Exodus 21:12 on the Law Concerning Violence. It's the commandment redefined.

Kosher foods could relate back to having no other gods. If God commands it, no matter the reason, I'd think one should follow the command. Are we sure Abraham didn't partake of "non kosher" foods? I never thought about that, but there was no command concerning it for Abraham. Anyway. The kosher foods is strictly Jewish though, so I really didn't even think of that one.

In Judaism, it does, and I believe Christianity is similar on that term. The hebrew root indicates that it is cold blooded murder, not like war, etc which is justifiably killing. You can kill an animal all you want (well, as long as you don't do it needlessly)

abraham was the first jew, however the torah was not given then.

Ah, well see, again I am not familiar with the Torah. I'm doing a bit of research now In our bible the Jews are "set apart" as God's people. The Gentiles were never given the command about kosher foods. That was strictly for the Jews the way i read it. I still don't think an animal is any different than a person as far as murdering. All are God's creation, and all are under our stewardship IMO.

Oh, and I don't think our ten commandments are any different than yours, but I can't say for certain. However, I'd think it would be more prevalently known if they were.

 

[Wannabefree]

Bee, if you aren't curious or understanding about other religious beliefs, how do you ever hope to bear witness to those people? That is our command, to bear witness of Christ.

Debate is a healthy tool. Sharpening the saw....