Farmfresh
City Biddy
I would ask them to supply the equipment as well.
Just a hint about them paying for some therapy might get the job done.
Just a hint about them paying for some therapy might get the job done.
What do you know about ADD?
- Thread starter me&thegals
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- #92
me&thegals
A Major Squash & Pumpkin Lover
Hah! Where's an evil devil smiley when you need it? 
Nah--I figure this is just life. I was just surprised that the school didn't have something more worthwhile to occupy their time... I was also not so impressed that while the school secretary sent me an apology e-mail (it's not HER fault), the school principal hasn't said a word. Oh well. It's really not too big of a deal... As long as they don't do it again...
Nah--I figure this is just life. I was just surprised that the school didn't have something more worthwhile to occupy their time... I was also not so impressed that while the school secretary sent me an apology e-mail (it's not HER fault), the school principal hasn't said a word. Oh well. It's really not too big of a deal... As long as they don't do it again...
- Thread starter
- #93
me&thegals
A Major Squash & Pumpkin Lover
UPDATE:
Oh, where to even start? My husband and I completed an 80-something question survey about our son's behavior. His teacher completed the same. They were scored for many things. At home, inattention and opposition rose to the top with high scores in ADHD DSM-IV categories. For his teacher, only inattentiveness was scored signficantly high.
His teacher and the school psychiatrist both observed him over 20-min periods of time. His teacher had the school principal teach her class while she, the teacher, watched my son and made notes every 20 seconds about whether or not he was on task. Same for the psych. Teacher noted 75% attentiveness, psychiatrist 60% attentiveness (3 sessions for psych.).
ETA: I thought, "Dang, 75%? Wow! That's great! I wouldn't do so well in the typical classroom!!" She also showed me doodling he had been doing while he was supposed to be paying attention. There was an intricate maze that I wanted to bring home and stick on the fridge! Another encapsulated his worksheet with an enormous carrot--way to go! The third was a funny little man made from a large eraser, 2 smaller pencil-top erasers and a paperclip. Again, cool!
ETA, again: I would NOT tell my child these were cool and creative. I would tell him in class I expect him to be paying attention. In those private parent moments we have, though, my internal mom was thinking they were pretty interesting
The family and child psychiatrist whose school-district-wide workshop we are attending on Parenting with Love and Logic took a look at our son's scores, listened to us talk for 2 min and suggested immediate medication until we could get our son in to see him.
I am so confused, so frustrated and so worried over all of this. I will try to gather my thoughts in a focused way to explain:
1. Is there ADD or not?? Physicians, teachers and psychiatrists all seem to believe so. These are also the people who benefit from this diagnosis either monetarily or through a calmer classroom.
Then, I read the book "The Myth of ADD" and get right back to my original thoughts that our school system is geared to sitting-down learning, lots of workbooks and worksheets and very little hands-on, moving-around, actually-doing-things learning.
2. How is it REALLY diagnosed? I work at a medical clinic. I know the physicians stick kids on medications when they have definitely not had enough assessment of them to really know the child. Besides, how would a clinic-setting assessment mimic the classroom, the home, or other places the child needs to focus?
Plus, see above--all the people who diagnose it benefit from the diagnosis.
How do we figure out if the child is actually depressed, bored, understimulated, overwhelmed, overtired, undernourished, anxious, daydreaming?
Or, is the diagnosis so obvious that not much assessment is needed? Let's say I give you the symptoms "chest pain, chest heaviness, sweatiness, feelings of indigestion." Quick! Tell me! What is that? Is ADD as simple as diagnosing a heart attack?
3. What if public schools just stink? My daughter is also distracted in school. But she has a sense of self esteem and accomplishment tied to getting good scores and the approval of us and her teachers. My son just does not care. It's like he thinks it's stupid (he doesn't actually say this) and doesn't care to gain approval for something that seems pointless to him (again, he doesn't verbalize this, so this is my best guess as his mother).
What if many children are dying a slow mental death in public schools, but they do the work anyway? What if some children are so, so bored that they simply don't give a rip and don't bother to try very hard?
4. What if this is just bad parenting? What if somehow as a parent I have not taught my child to be intrinsically motivated? What if the consequences of bad school work (poor grades) mean nothing to him? What if the benefits of good school work (good grades, my approval) don't matter that much either? What if at age 9 (duh, of course!) he doesn't even get WHY eventually, 10 years from now, good grades might benefit his life?
5. What if we don't find ways to give him the skills he needs? How long do you let a child be beaten down in the system he is in?
6. What if he really DOES have an actual medical condition that could be fixed by medication? What if in all my agonizing over whether it exists or not, it is just the same as my not treating potential diabetes and his mental health falls further and further?
I know this is so much. I just really do not know what to do. Unlike diabetes, researching ADD online or in books is literally to be bounced around between opinions and research like a pinball. I'm starting to feel a little nutty. And, of course, each side is so attached to and entrenched in their own views. How does one begin to reach the truth?
Oh, where to even start? My husband and I completed an 80-something question survey about our son's behavior. His teacher completed the same. They were scored for many things. At home, inattention and opposition rose to the top with high scores in ADHD DSM-IV categories. For his teacher, only inattentiveness was scored signficantly high.
His teacher and the school psychiatrist both observed him over 20-min periods of time. His teacher had the school principal teach her class while she, the teacher, watched my son and made notes every 20 seconds about whether or not he was on task. Same for the psych. Teacher noted 75% attentiveness, psychiatrist 60% attentiveness (3 sessions for psych.).
ETA: I thought, "Dang, 75%? Wow! That's great! I wouldn't do so well in the typical classroom!!" She also showed me doodling he had been doing while he was supposed to be paying attention. There was an intricate maze that I wanted to bring home and stick on the fridge! Another encapsulated his worksheet with an enormous carrot--way to go! The third was a funny little man made from a large eraser, 2 smaller pencil-top erasers and a paperclip. Again, cool!
ETA, again: I would NOT tell my child these were cool and creative. I would tell him in class I expect him to be paying attention. In those private parent moments we have, though, my internal mom was thinking they were pretty interesting
The family and child psychiatrist whose school-district-wide workshop we are attending on Parenting with Love and Logic took a look at our son's scores, listened to us talk for 2 min and suggested immediate medication until we could get our son in to see him.
I am so confused, so frustrated and so worried over all of this. I will try to gather my thoughts in a focused way to explain:
1. Is there ADD or not?? Physicians, teachers and psychiatrists all seem to believe so. These are also the people who benefit from this diagnosis either monetarily or through a calmer classroom.
Then, I read the book "The Myth of ADD" and get right back to my original thoughts that our school system is geared to sitting-down learning, lots of workbooks and worksheets and very little hands-on, moving-around, actually-doing-things learning.
2. How is it REALLY diagnosed? I work at a medical clinic. I know the physicians stick kids on medications when they have definitely not had enough assessment of them to really know the child. Besides, how would a clinic-setting assessment mimic the classroom, the home, or other places the child needs to focus?
Plus, see above--all the people who diagnose it benefit from the diagnosis.
How do we figure out if the child is actually depressed, bored, understimulated, overwhelmed, overtired, undernourished, anxious, daydreaming?
Or, is the diagnosis so obvious that not much assessment is needed? Let's say I give you the symptoms "chest pain, chest heaviness, sweatiness, feelings of indigestion." Quick! Tell me! What is that? Is ADD as simple as diagnosing a heart attack?
3. What if public schools just stink? My daughter is also distracted in school. But she has a sense of self esteem and accomplishment tied to getting good scores and the approval of us and her teachers. My son just does not care. It's like he thinks it's stupid (he doesn't actually say this) and doesn't care to gain approval for something that seems pointless to him (again, he doesn't verbalize this, so this is my best guess as his mother).
What if many children are dying a slow mental death in public schools, but they do the work anyway? What if some children are so, so bored that they simply don't give a rip and don't bother to try very hard?
4. What if this is just bad parenting? What if somehow as a parent I have not taught my child to be intrinsically motivated? What if the consequences of bad school work (poor grades) mean nothing to him? What if the benefits of good school work (good grades, my approval) don't matter that much either? What if at age 9 (duh, of course!) he doesn't even get WHY eventually, 10 years from now, good grades might benefit his life?
5. What if we don't find ways to give him the skills he needs? How long do you let a child be beaten down in the system he is in?
6. What if he really DOES have an actual medical condition that could be fixed by medication? What if in all my agonizing over whether it exists or not, it is just the same as my not treating potential diabetes and his mental health falls further and further?
I know this is so much. I just really do not know what to do. Unlike diabetes, researching ADD online or in books is literally to be bounced around between opinions and research like a pinball. I'm starting to feel a little nutty. And, of course, each side is so attached to and entrenched in their own views. How does one begin to reach the truth?
Oh, my heart goes out to you! 
Is there a program that you could design for your son that would test and verify for you that it could be ADD before the drugs enter the picture or your pushing for more intervention? Do you have a time limit to decide on action?
I think it sounds like under stimulation from what you've posted, but don't bet the farm on my imput.
You do not come off as a bad parent, so eliminate that one!
Is there a program that you could design for your son that would test and verify for you that it could be ADD before the drugs enter the picture or your pushing for more intervention? Do you have a time limit to decide on action?
I think it sounds like under stimulation from what you've posted, but don't bet the farm on my imput.
You do not come off as a bad parent, so eliminate that one!
BeccaOH
Almost Self-Reliant
I feel for you in this problem.
I would not want to rush to medicate. From the doodles, it does sound to me that he is a bright boy who is probably bored and unmotivated by the style of teaching in the classroom and would benefit from more hands-on style of learning and less predictability in the classroom.
I do thank God that I did not complete my education degree and teach because of hard issues like this and the politics involved.
I would not want to rush to medicate. From the doodles, it does sound to me that he is a bright boy who is probably bored and unmotivated by the style of teaching in the classroom and would benefit from more hands-on style of learning and less predictability in the classroom.
I do thank God that I did not complete my education degree and teach because of hard issues like this and the politics involved.
big brown horse
Hoof In Mouth
I understand your frustration, believe me, been there done that. I remember the forms and all the observations etc. I am against medicating children especially when what they are being medicated for is masking the real issue as in the case with my daughter. However, her self esteem was on the line and for girls that is pretty important. She was visibly frustrated and began to act out. She couldn't get her work completed and spent every day in the classroom while everyone else got to play outside so she could finish her work. In the second grade I finally asked her if she would like to take a "vitamin" that might help her focus at school and she screamed YES!!!
So we tried it. Of course it didn't work in her case b/c she really had auditory perception disorder (a neurological disorder). She actually told me she didn't like to take the pills after 2 weeks of trying. She knew more than the doctors and the teacher. So after giving it the collage try we discontinued the medication. I think it cost me about $20 for a co-pay for the rx and that was it.
It was soon after that that I noticed what I thought was hearing loss.
I guess the point I'm making is have you just asked your son? Not saying it is his decision to make at such a young age, just seeing if it bothers him that he can't pay attention. What does he tell you?
(Again, another reason I love Montessori schools, children can move around the classroom to get a task done. Too bad public schools rely on the "stillness of young children" to teach the masses.
It sounds to me that your son is very smart and probably bored. )
BTW, I was a very consistent parent and fed her the best diet (or what I thought was the best at the time) We tried everything else before we sought dr.s.
So we tried it. Of course it didn't work in her case b/c she really had auditory perception disorder (a neurological disorder). She actually told me she didn't like to take the pills after 2 weeks of trying. She knew more than the doctors and the teacher. So after giving it the collage try we discontinued the medication. I think it cost me about $20 for a co-pay for the rx and that was it.
It was soon after that that I noticed what I thought was hearing loss.
I guess the point I'm making is have you just asked your son? Not saying it is his decision to make at such a young age, just seeing if it bothers him that he can't pay attention. What does he tell you?
(Again, another reason I love Montessori schools, children can move around the classroom to get a task done. Too bad public schools rely on the "stillness of young children" to teach the masses.
It sounds to me that your son is very smart and probably bored. )BTW, I was a very consistent parent and fed her the best diet (or what I thought was the best at the time) We tried everything else before we sought dr.s.
I toured the Hershey Montessori School in Huntsburg, Ohio for the National Solar and Alternative Energy Tour. It was a working farm that employed solar, geothermal and just about everything imaginable.big brown horse said:(Again, another reason I love Montessori schools, children can move around the classroom to get a task done. Too bad public schools rely on the "stillness of young children" to teach the masses.
The kids guided us, explained innovations, farming techniques, sustainability, profitability and class schedules. I was blown away by these kids and those who made this school a reality. Any question we adults had were answered completely, including engineering and business principles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms1ei9m2p_8
It may be that these kids need to move about using muscles in order to learn and focus. Perhaps contacting a Montessori liaison could guide your decision with information on their approach; to enable you to apply the concepts to your son while keeping him in his school.
- Thread starter
- #98
me&thegals
A Major Squash & Pumpkin Lover
In everything else, we talk. For this one, I am trying to assess it without talking to him about it too much. I'm concerned about handing him excuses, because that is his personality, and I'm concerned about labeling him. In fact, this whole process of trying to figure out what's going on is worrying me in that it could make him feel odd, studied, assessed, somehow "not quite right."big brown horse said:
So, thus far we have talked about things he can do to try to stay on task, keep organized and do his best. Things like: Getting backpack ready the night before, using his assignment notebook at school to check off each thing he needs to bring home in order to be able to do his homework, repeating tasks over and over in his mind until they are done (like when I ask him to go fold his clothes, he could keep saying to himself "fold clothes, fold clothes, fold clothes" until he gets upstairs and is working on his clothes), etc.
I think he knows something is going on--teachers meeting, books lying around, etc. And we have talked a bit about trying to help him do better in school. Until we know IF there is such a thing as ADD and IF he might have it, I don't want him hearing any labels. I don't want him feeling different. Of course, the only way to find out IF there is ADD and IF he has it is to make those doctor appointments, teacher's meetings, psychiatric evals.
Am I making any sense here?
BTW, thank you all so much for the time and thought you have put into your responses. They are very helpful and I will welcome ALL the input I can get.
BBH, I'm so glad you found the answer for your daughter. Good for you for listening to her and trusting her feelings on it, regarding the medication.
Sylvie--I didn't feel rushed until last night, when the child psychiatrist urged us to get him on medication ASAP until he could see him 1 month from now. What? Really?
BeccaOH--I worry about how to address the whole "school is not very interesting for a lot of kids" issue. If my child is going to continue in public school, I need to be really cautious about stomping all over his teacher's toes. I tried to gently and courteously mention in our meeting Mon that perhaps some parts of school are simply a bit monotonous. While his teacher agreed, she certainly expected compliance anyways.
Again, how far does a person go to make a child fit into a system? That IS just life, right? But, we adults get to make a lot more choices about what life we choose. I did NOT choose to work in a factory job doing the same repetitive task for 8 hours straight because I would go nutty. I chose jobs that fit me perfectly. My son, while still having to live life as we know it, doesn't really get this choice, does he? So do I force him to fit the system (medication or some sort of behavioral therapy?) or do I try to get the system to change to fit him?
patandchickens
Crazy Cat Lady
But, if you *are* seriously considering medication, you do not have to use any labels or excuses. Just, "there is a pill that sometimes helps kids who have trouble concentrating in class; it has to be taken X times a day and has X side effects some times; does that sound like something you would be interested in trying?"me&thegals said:
I think it would be a big mistake to do something because some comment from some school psychologist makes you feel rushed. There is TIME. There is NO hurry at all.
You know, I think to a considerable extent, other things in life can substitute for the things you're supposed to be learning in school, when school is dull and uninteresting. I forget what you've said before, does your son have a hobby or activity that he is really 'into', or does he have some subject area that he is actively taking responsibility for learning about just b/c he wants to, or some enterprise that interests him (selling eggs, building things, whatever)?
School is not the ONLY place to learn subject material, or to learn to learn, or to learn that sometimes life requires us to suck it up and do boring stupid things because that's just the way it is.
There are certainly plenty of people in the world whose school performance was 'lackluster' but who went on to be very successful people, both economically and in terms of personal fulfillment, because they found important and wortwhile things to get involved with *outside of* school. And remember, school grades (as such) really do not have much affect on your life except that for a few years they affect what if any college you can get into. (If enough time elapses between high school and applying to college, even h.s. grades don't matter much!)
Good luck, hang in there,
Pat
- Thread starter
- #100
me&thegals
A Major Squash & Pumpkin Lover
Very, very true. My foremost concern is not his grades but his level of frustration and anger, his lack of many things to feel great about during the school year. He gets up at 6:15 and spends the next at least 12 hour getting ready for school, in school, or doing homework after school. It doesn't leave much time for the things he enjoys.patandchickens said:
One thing we're going to really focus on is finding things he can be really successful in. I'm looking into 4-H right now, which would seem to involve the things he is most interested in.
We're working hard on homework time, getting it done faster to leave time for fun things.
We're also working on our own (parental) level of frustration over his lackluster performance. If we can calm ourselves down, be matter of fact, let him "own" the consequences and work with him to build skills like organization, etc., things should also improve.
Some kids can float through school on bad grades and not really care. Others will have their self esteem take a beating.
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