Obama finally called them out

[Wifezilla]

What Is Healthy For People, they already tend (IMHO) to run somewhat amok with the idea... do we really want them doing it *more*?

I know what you are saying, but I consider subsidies meddling...so by eliminating them you stop the meddling.

I don't know as crop subsidies exist to promote carbohydrates as such, anyhow, it's kind of more complicated than that. That they tend to make grains, especially the ones that get heavily processed into simple carbohydrates, a higher proportion of peoples' diet is partly sort of a side effect, it seems to me.

I just got done reading "Everything I want to do it illegal" by Joel Salatin. Eliminating crop subsidies is also on his list. VERY enlightening read.

Nobody is ever going to officially admit that 30 years of "eat less fat and meat, eat more rice and potatoes and pasta" backfired... imagine the legal ramifications

No kidding. I would love dig up Ancel Keys and bitch slap him a couple of times for using cooked numbers to "prove" saturated fat is bad. Add the idiots who recommended calories restriction, lots of grains and soy consumption to my hit list. That nearly killed me!

 

[Wifezilla]

Just a note...

I am uninsured and on the lower end of the income scale. I really wish people would stop trying to "help" me WHEN I DIDN'T ASK FOR THEIR HELP OR WANT IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

The way the health care changes look now, they could very well put me out of business and change me from someone who pays taxes to someone who doesn't.

 

[reinbeau]

Isn't it cheaper to give them free insurance than to spend eight trillion or whatever that number is up to now? We're not talking billions here, but trillions. An utterly amazing number.

 

[FarmerChick]

This is from the speech he said last night---

Add it all up, and the plan I'm proposing will cost around $900 billion over ten years less than we have spent on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and less than the tax cuts for the wealthiest few Americans that Congress passed at the beginning of the previous administration. Most of these costs will be paid for with money already being spent but spent badly in the existing health care system. The plan will not add to our deficit. The middle-class will realize greater security, not higher taxes. And if we are able to slow the growth of health care costs by just one-tenth of one percent each year, it will actually reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the long term.



8 trillion I don't know what that one refers too? the total deficit---but above he says it will reduce by 4 trillion.

Of course these numbers are "unreal" to me like me flying to the moon. I can't put this kind of spending into real situations, how many million to cover healthcare, vs. how many billions on welfare, and all other agencies..UGH


You can't just insure the uninsured for free that I can see. Wouldn't everyone cancel their insurance and take that plan. HEY I AM uninsured, insure me for free! I would---while I am sure there would be requirements, hmm.......The nation can't absorb those costs and honestly, I personally would be ticked off. I work, I pay, I pay taxes and I pay thru the nose for health care for myself right now. I need help on healthcare and I want help on healthcare.

No a bigger change must happen in the industry. I want a change for me--to be able to be secure from pre-existing problems, secure from high rising premiums, secure to know I can have healthcare and it is there, not a noose around my neck and fear of foreclosure of my home if I get cancer.

We must have some help in this healthcare big time -----just how I see it.

Will be very interesting to see what comes out from behind closed doors!! Who knows what will be kept, scratched, revised, changed, added, etc. etc.

It is still so new....nothing in stone and tons of ideas on the board.
wait and see game as usual I guess.

 

[Wifezilla]

If people REALLY want to see change there is one thing they can do but they wont. Ever.









Cancel their insurance and tell their doctor they will only see them if he takes cash and posts his rates on the wall.

I have been advocating this for years.

Take out the middleman. Get a high limit credit card and only use it for health care. Use a health savings account. Take what you would pay for insurance and stuff it under your mattress and only use it for medical reasons.

It would take less than 25% of the people going on "insurance strike" for the entire industry to change.

But it will never happen. People who see no problem paying $30,000 for a new truck think paying out of pocket for $10,000 worth of medical services is somehow wrong.

 

[reinbeau]

I agree wholeheartedly. Get rid of the insurance middleman and just pay the doctors for regular care. I really think it would be far less expensive for routine care, but what do you do about catastrophic incidents? My recent hospitalization was $30K. That's pretty cheap, actually. Cancer, etc. costs hundreds of thousands. Catastrophic insurance only would be one way.

 

[sylvie]

Isn't it cheaper to give them free insurance than to spend eight trillion or whatever that number is up to now? We're not talking billions here, but trillions. An utterly amazing number.

I'd get on board for free insurance!

 

[FarmerChick]

There is catastrophic insurance.

Very cheap. My brother got it for him and his wife for $300 per month because they were consultants. No insurance cause they were not employees.

$10k deductible, 100% thereafter.
He paid for everything needed up to $10k.
He put aside a big medical fund to cover "what ifs" but knew after that 10k he was covered great!

10k is nothing to go in the hole....when it could be lose your house, lose your life, lose everything due to $100k--600k--way more---- cost of cancer treatments and such!

Its a gamble that you don't have big costs of course, but the insurance is there if needed.

 

[Big Daddy]

If you were under 45 or so, in good shape, had a 10k credit car that you kept just i case and had a GP that would give you routine care for a menu price, it would work great. Problem is that most people can't swing that. That's the way I would go if I was self employed or had an employer that didn't have a decent plan. Most middle class type employers have decent health plans though and you can get couples covg for 300.00 a month with a 500.00 deductible. The company picks up 500.00 per month of the premium.

 

[enjoy the ride]

This is sooooo simple-
1) there is no free lunch- the people who produce something pay for themselves and the ones who don't- who has to pay what is the sticking point.
2)Neither Congress nor the Exectutive branch seem to show much gumption on fixing fraud- they cave at the first media story about some poor soul getting the shaft or the first lobbiest with a big check so "fixing" is no ever going to happen - as was said, nothing is stopping them from fixing stuff already.
3)It is not spending "neutral"- saying the premiums will be established by the cost is disingenuous at best. It will cost with subsidies reducing taxes paid.
4)Cost containment in multiply plans is hard. I have a HMO plan- in trying to find a new doctor, I have found out that no doctor will take me as a patient because the fees paid restrict their income too much. I might as well have no plan at all. Doctors already do the rationing- thems as can pay gets, thems as can't, don't.
5) Death panels already exists for the elderly as many who have tried to get a doctor interested in treating an 80 year old can tell. Mostly doctors write them off as going to die anyway- they accept that an illness is just a sign of the body failing when they would fight like heck to save a younger person.
5) Cost saving as mentioned by the President is theoretical at best- most will not happen.
6) those with the income will pay for additional private care, with most of the best doctors going that way to earn money. Those who are poor will still end up in clinics, etc. The only way around it is to require all docs to accept all insurances- as per my personal example above, good luck with that.
7) Taxing the rich to get money to pay for this is a temping thought but not likely to last past the first change of administration.
8) the President said that 95% of small businesses will be exempt from the requirement to provide health insurance. But since they are the major source of jobs in the current times, most people will not be covered anyway unless they buy it themselves.
9) Most federal employee health insurance runs from $170 for a low priced single person plan to $3-500 for a family. The government pays about 3/4's of the cost for insurance so that means health insurance runs from $680- $2000 per month that an individual would need to pay- and that premium is supported by having many people (ie young and healthy) who join. Also most federal employees qualify for Medicare, so the Fed premium is based on much of the cost of care for older people being covered there. If not medicare, those Medicare costs will be added into the premiums and they will be higher that current Fed premiums.
10) Congress could change the rules right now about pre-existing conditions and terminating benefits for someone who becomes seriously ill. The same with portability.

The bottom line is, that covering extra people will cause an increase in taxes. Any small saving will come from lessening empergency visits but will be swamped with many more regular doctor visits. The premiums must be supported by those healthy people being forced to join to be affordable by most- ie all forced to participate. There are not enough doctors now to go around, so that will have a tendency to ration care even if only by the nature of the thing. People who opt out will still go to emergency rooms.
So do we wish to provide health care for almost everyone by paying more taxes or do we not? Can we live with the government meddling in health care or not? Can employers and individuals live with mandated participation? Those are the only real issues that I can see.