Obama finally called them out

VT-Chicklit

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We currently have a ratio of over 400 people per doctor here in the US. Other first world nations have a much lower ratio of patients to doctors. Most are around 300 patients per doctor or less. The reality is that there will not be enough doctors to cover the flood of new people accessing the system and I dont mean those who are legitamately sick with illnesses that require a doctors care.

When something is free or nearly so, we tend to use it more. An example of this is people who have insurance which will cover most things like check ups or minor illnesses such as colds and sniffles especially in childrern, bumps, bruises and so on. They tend to go to the doctor for these things. People who do not have insurance think twice about it and do just fine without this type visit. What will happen when everyone wants to go for such trivial things because they are now covered and there for "FREE"? People with legitamate illnesses that really require a doctors care will be placed on long waiting lists along with those whose illnesses do not really require a doctors care. This is unintended rationing. It doesnt have to be written into the bill inorder to be fact! If you are lucky enough to reach the top of the list before you get better, get worse or die, you will get treated.

This also goes for hospitals stays, elective and non-elective surgeries, both preventative screenings as well as tests needed to detirmine your illness when you are already ill. The system will be swamped. People who really need care will be unable to get care quickly. Many will die because of this. Today, if you are really sick you can get care. You may come out of it oweing a huge bill, you might loose your house, go bankrupt or . . . part of your bill might be written off and paid for (through higher premiums) by someone else who has insurance. At least you will have gotten the care you needed and you will be alive. Under Obama Care, it is a crap shoot! Maybe you get the care you need before your illness takes your life, maybe you will get the expensive tests you need in a timely manner, maybe you will be allowed the expensive drugs you need to keep you alive . . . or maybe not! I think I would rather take a chance on loosing everything because of catastrophic health care costs (which by the way are easily paid for with an inexpensive catastrophic health insurance policy not allowed under the Obama Plan), than take a chance on all the stars aligning, so that I get the critical care that I need in a timely manner if I get cancer or some other horrible disease under Obama Care.

Obama Care is great if you are healthy and dont need much medical care. It will be a death sentence to many who get cancer, have liver failure, heart disease, or other catastrophic illnesses. These people will die waiting on a list! To see this, check out the stats for these diseases in countries with "Socialized Medicine". You will see, on a whole we do better on the "big stuff" than they do.

Our life expectancy is shorter because of our life style not because of our medical system. We smoke too much, drink too much, eat unhealthily, we have too much gun violence. It is hard to save someone with a gun shot wound to the head or heart, or someone who drove while drunk and totaled his vehicle as well as the one he hit, and so on. Dont blame our system for things that are our fault. Obama Care does not truely address the real issues and will only make medical care worse. The issue is cost and I would rather have a cost issue that an access issue! You may think health care is expensive now, the true cost will be much higher under Obama Care. It could be your life>
 

FarmerChick

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VT I agree we put ourselves into many medical crisis...like the smoking, obesity etc. etc.

As does many countries now. UK obesity is going thru the roof also.


BUT no where did you mention the cost of the plans on the nation etc.
All you mentioned in this post is not being able to see a doctor because of influx of new insureds on the system.

The only way I can interpret this post (and tell me if I am wrong)---is you advocate denying people coverage and healthcare because that may make you wait longer to be treated.

If that is the case, that is horrible. If you say deny others, so only a few will be treated properly, OH MY!!!!!!

You say deny healthcare to everyone because it will possibly inconvenience the system for a bit. And maybe make "a more worthy" person like you or me (cause we are already insured) wait longer in a line.

I truly hope this is not your reasoning.

I understand it could happen--waiting a few more days for an appt. cause new people need doctor visits, and if they go for little things like colds --maybe the doctors should address that. When someone comes with flu type symptoms, treat them and send them home with an info kit. Like if you feel like this--treat yourself at home like this---if you do not feel well in 5 days or feel worse immediately contact us......you know, that type of thing. educate the people.

get the doctors on line to push nutrition and all that.

I actually see a new market for doctors. It would mean employment for people. Have clinics that treat ONLY small illness. That clinic could then refer more sick people to other doctors for more invasive treatments if needed. And in that clinic situation offer diet control, diabetes maintenance, stop smoking programs, etc. etc.

Who knows, good might come from all of this.

I don't see it as a block, a stop to the medical system----I see it as growth to get our country where it needs to go! Better healthcare for everyone!

Everyone deserves to see a doctor when needed. Not just us insureds now.

Your "let them die" to save me in a long line and possible wait for treatment does not wash. That is so far from being humane it is wrong, just wrong.
 

SKR8PN

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I found this comment on another site and thought it hit the subject, dead nuts on..........


Last night was uncomfortable, especially how about if youre a parent and you had your children in school this week, the presidents speech to the kids, just as I said, it was to set up last nights speech. Were being told and kids are being told to look up to this man. It was an awful speech. He was petulant; he was childish; he was a community organizer and agitator; he lied; he was divisive; he attacked me; he attacked Sarah Palin; he attacked conservative Republicans in Congress who dare to challenge government-run health care. He continued to attack tens of millions of Americans who spent the summer attending town hall meetings. It was crude. It was disgusting. The most crude and disgusting performance by any president I have seen.
 

FarmerChick

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SKR

this type of post is exactly why change will never happen.

to trash and stop ideas and growth, because you "might not like the guy suggesting the change"

I disagree with that post 100%
I loved the speech.....so what he told others to get off their arse and do something....oooOOOooo.....bad guy. Stop all growth and change "cause we don't like him"

Poo on that!

Your darn right he should attack Sarah Palin.
I can't believe people should allow a politician to blantaly lie----Death Panels. Come on....that is no more than saying that Obama and our govt. intends to kill our elderly. Please...and to spread that lie to that level is just criminal. Criminal on her part and all the lies out there.

We depend on politicans.....we know they pad the truth----but to take a healthcare reform and spew Death Panels out in mainstream media like that was criminal and unjust.

Anyone saying the current govt. is out to kill our people with heathcare reform should be held liable for their actions!!! It was if anything disgusting on their part to even suggest Death Panels etc. Those are the ones that should be thrown out of govt right now!!!!

How dare they use the citizens in that way. Throw out lies of death panels just to "make their point or win their argument"



(I know you didn't write this, just commenting on it)
 

reinbeau

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It's no lie, Karen. While here are no 'death panels' named in the plan, there are most definitely provisions for 'end of life' counseling, etc. You can hate Sarah Palin all you want, the fact is those provisions do exist in the plan.

Have you ever heard of Dr. Ezekill Emanuel? He's Rahn Emanuel's brother, and he's huge on eugenics, killing off elders and genetically disabled children (he thinks it just fine to kill a child up to two years old, because they aren't socially formed yet). Do a google on him, it's eye-opening. He's an adviser to this whole health care plan.
 

SKR8PN

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Edited - bashing the President isn't going to help this discussion
 

FarmerChick

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end of life counseling.....key word counseling.....and I believe we should have it.

heck there are millions who want to end their life earlier at the end---AND they should have that right!! I am all for a person deciding when THEY want to end their life in a long terminal medically ill situation. I want that right!

But of course under controlled situation with lawyers, advice when to do it etc. This needs to be kept in the context it is mentioned.



Yes I will google him. Thanks...I didn't hear of him at all. More info I get the better.


But again I say you can not deny others cause you might have inconvenience of a few days of getting an appt. It doesn't hold with me.




This is off topic--but what is super scary is the future. With so many people on the planet...will it ever come to levels of humans. Some to be eliminated so others can survive? WOW those are super scary thoughts to me. Hopefully never to happen. AND see, some are already thinking about it. woof! who knows that will come! :(
 

SKR8PN

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FarmerChick said:
end of life counseling.....key word counseling.....and I believe we should have it.

heck there are millions who want to end their life earlier at the end---AND they should have that right!! I am all for a person deciding when THEY want to end their life in a long terminal medically ill situation. I want that right!

But of course under controlled situation with lawyers, advice when to do it etc. This needs to be kept in the context it is mentioned.



Yes I will google him. Thanks...I didn't hear of him at all. More info I get the better.


But again I say you can not deny others cause you might have inconvenience of a few days of getting an appt. It doesn't hold with me.




This is off topic--but what is super scary is the future. With so many people on the planet...will it ever come to levels of humans. Some to be eliminated so others can survive? WOW those are super scary thoughts to me. Hopefully never to happen. AND see, some are already thinking about it. woof! who knows that will come! :(
I don't mind waiting to get into see my DR. I already have to wait a week or more at times. I DO however, have a problem with a government bureaucrat deciding if the procedure I need is "to expensive" and therefore, unnecessary.

"Some to be eliminated so others can survive"???
You need to study your history a little bit more. It has already happened........more than once.
 

reinbeau

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So, if your 'end of life' is going to be at 64 of breast cancer, because it's been deemed you're 'too old' for treatment, that's ok with you? Because that's what they're talking about. I don't care if you're 94, if you're strong and you want to fight you should have that chance. There's a reason why the breast cancer survival rate is lower in Great Britain and Canada, it's called managed care.
 
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