Obama finally called them out
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reinbeau
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Precisely - which is why we need tort reform.Wifezilla said:
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They definitely need some kind of cap on awards. 250k like George wanted is way too low, but these 20 million dollar awards for pain and suffering are ridiculous. Malpractice suits only account for less than 1% of health care cost but the insurance is sure a killer.reinbeau said:
reinbeau
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That $250k was an insult. If someone is harmed that they need quality care until the day they die then that needs to be taken into consideration. I think it's the punitive damages that really drive up those suits - and make the lawyers plenty. So how do we get a bunch of lawyers to take away those millions from another bunch of lawyers? Fat chance unless we the people really push them on it.
FarmerChick
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But it is happening already.reinbeau said:
Only the insurance company is controlling who gets tests. And the insurance companies are fiercer than the govt on profits.
I see no true difference other than more people get some coverage.
FarmerChick
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Thanks for the info Pat
you explained it for me. I was kinda thinking something different.
You know both systems of medical care. You were in America and in Canada.
Do you favor one?
I mean if you have to pick, only because I say---obviously there are many changes to both situations we would all love to see.
you explained it for me. I was kinda thinking something different.
You know both systems of medical care. You were in America and in Canada.
Do you favor one?
I mean if you have to pick, only because I say---obviously there are many changes to both situations we would all love to see.
it was an excellent speech and I agree with Obama and am very glad he is our president right now. Hopefully we can just stop screwing around an give our people health care!!! the debate is over ...time to move on! seriously for every moment we sit here not agreeing and finding all kinds of excuses for how the other side is so freaking wrong the more we are wasting time
I am a die hard Democrat but am thinking right now ...why do Republicans not listen to one of their best people Olympia! ..she has worked hard on this issue .. she is as close to having an actual bipartisan solution as I have ever heard? she is brilliant! I would give a bit on my thinking if more Repulicans were like her and gave a bit on thier thinking and just wanted to figure out the bottom line
we need a national plan for people who can not afford health insurance..the folks who need preventative care most are not getting it and waiting until conditions are so severe they spend more time and money treating what becomes chronic also then becomes SSI ...and on and on...this is not working it has not been working for most of my adult life!
... it is costing us a fortune to soak up ER bills for earaches!
I heard someone at work say Olympia was "so left she could not be right" ..and this was from a Republican! she said she was concerned her ideas were way too liberal ..I asked her "what are you saying can you tell me what she is saying she wants to do?"
"I dont know but knowing HER is why I know I would not believe what she believes" argh ..this does not help us find a middle does it?
I actually do understand both sides in this ..I am just so tired of what things are when I know what they could be ..we are a great country and people should have great healthcare as a right.
phew ..thanks for letting me interject
all this I wanted to say to my coworker yesterday and please know was not intended or directed towards anyone in this thread ..I will direct her here on monday however
I am a die hard Democrat but am thinking right now ...why do Republicans not listen to one of their best people Olympia! ..she has worked hard on this issue .. she is as close to having an actual bipartisan solution as I have ever heard? she is brilliant! I would give a bit on my thinking if more Repulicans were like her and gave a bit on thier thinking and just wanted to figure out the bottom line
we need a national plan for people who can not afford health insurance..the folks who need preventative care most are not getting it and waiting until conditions are so severe they spend more time and money treating what becomes chronic also then becomes SSI ...and on and on...this is not working it has not been working for most of my adult life!
... it is costing us a fortune to soak up ER bills for earaches!
I heard someone at work say Olympia was "so left she could not be right" ..and this was from a Republican! she said she was concerned her ideas were way too liberal ..I asked her "what are you saying can you tell me what she is saying she wants to do?"
"I dont know but knowing HER is why I know I would not believe what she believes" argh ..this does not help us find a middle does it?
I actually do understand both sides in this ..I am just so tired of what things are when I know what they could be ..we are a great country and people should have great healthcare as a right.
phew ..thanks for letting me interject
all this I wanted to say to my coworker yesterday and please know was not intended or directed towards anyone in this thread ..I will direct her here on monday however patandchickens
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Your last sentence is an important one of course ("there are many...")FarmerChick said:
But, given the two systems as they currently stand (or anyhow as the US system was 7 yrs ago when I moved up here, I have not followed closely whatever changes may have occurred since then, but I do not think they'd change my opinion)...
...although the US system is better *for me personally*, as someone who had in recent years been decently employed with a decent health plan, I very strongly prefer the Canadian system. Indeed it is one of my more favorite things about living here -- one of the things I really admire about Canada. (I do not admire everything about Canada, mind you, although certainly I like the country ok)
Insofar as there are things I dislike about the Canadian medical system, the biggest one for me is *not* wait times or slightly more limited access to some particular high-end or new treatments (being as even with those waits and limits, Canadians are still way, waaaay better off than most of the rest of the world or even just Canadians of a generation ago!). It's the shortage of doctors in rural and (especially) mostly-native-peoples type areas. Even here in Uxbridge, which has a pretty high median income and is not far from Toronto, there are not enough family Drs to go around, and the situation is far worse in a lot of other places. This is not an unfixable problem, though, nor is it IMO particularly a result of the Canadian medical coverage system per se.
(edited to add: I would be interested to see statistics on it, if any exist, but my *impression* from talking with people and so forth is that even though a Dr visit here is absolutely free, people DO NOT rush to the Dr for hangnails and sniffles any more than in the US - if I had to guess I'd say maybe less often. Be interesting to see any hard numbers on it though)
(edited to also add: and some interesting things can happen when costs are being managed on such a large, universal scale. For instance Ontario and a growing number of other provinces cover midwife care for pregnancy/delivery/postnatal (including, in Ontario at least, full coverage for homebirths as well as for hospital deliveries where the midwives are in charge)... because, it turns out, this actually cuts costs through avoidance of many expensive problems that are 'mysteriously' more apt to arise when nurses/OBs are in charge. Of course it would be nice if nurses/OBs were trained in, and practiced, the sorts of things that midwives do to help avoid complications, but, actually, since it is a lot cheaper to train a midwife than an OB it kind of makes more sense to do it this way *anyhow*. This has not tended to happen in the US, despite HMOs etc trying to micromanage costs, because there the HMOs have no good way to control the training or availability of midwives. Whereas here, the gov't can say 'let there be midwives, trained thusly' and poof a bunch appear <g>)
Pat
FarmerChick
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Thanks for taking the time to give me all that info Pat.
Appreciate it.
Obviously, the U.S. is not going to a full govt. healthcare system.
We would not be the same as Canada.
What we want to do is offer a US backed insurance plan. That forces the ins. companies to compete. They have no competition. They kill us on premiums and limit our healthcare however they see fit. If the govt. can come up with a low cost sensible plan.....that everyone can afford mostly, and it makes the ins. co. then have to revise their plans. They have no choice.
To me this is a good thing. Healthy competition in markets is needed.
Then of course it takes away their pre-existing condition charge. WOW--we need that...every single person!!
One thing I like about your system in Canada....you said if they see a niche that should be filled, POOF---it appears. Trained midwives to those who want that type of delivery....medical backup of course.....and if all goes well the cost of the delivery is SO MUCH less than a hosp. birth.
That is great to me! A country that sees the need and works to fill it. At controlled cost. (Honestly--we don't have that here now in the US--very sad indeed)
I am glad to hear you have shortage of Drs. (well not glad, just to know that we are not the only ones with Dr. problems)
Simple for the US to fix that....offer true medical training assistance for those big bills. We could get a big influx of Drs. if there was money for their education.....hey, to me dropping a few bucks is worth that.
Does Canada offer anything to entice Drs. to "become Drs.?
I guess I wish just anyone could be a Doc---HA HA---that isn't going to happen! Only those who can truly handle that education can be a Dr.
Your Canada info. gave me some perspective to put all this together in my mind. cool!
Appreciate it.
Obviously, the U.S. is not going to a full govt. healthcare system.
We would not be the same as Canada.
What we want to do is offer a US backed insurance plan. That forces the ins. companies to compete. They have no competition. They kill us on premiums and limit our healthcare however they see fit. If the govt. can come up with a low cost sensible plan.....that everyone can afford mostly, and it makes the ins. co. then have to revise their plans. They have no choice.
To me this is a good thing. Healthy competition in markets is needed.
Then of course it takes away their pre-existing condition charge. WOW--we need that...every single person!!
One thing I like about your system in Canada....you said if they see a niche that should be filled, POOF---it appears. Trained midwives to those who want that type of delivery....medical backup of course.....and if all goes well the cost of the delivery is SO MUCH less than a hosp. birth.
That is great to me! A country that sees the need and works to fill it. At controlled cost. (Honestly--we don't have that here now in the US--very sad indeed)
I am glad to hear you have shortage of Drs. (well not glad, just to know that we are not the only ones with Dr. problems)
Simple for the US to fix that....offer true medical training assistance for those big bills. We could get a big influx of Drs. if there was money for their education.....hey, to me dropping a few bucks is worth that.
Does Canada offer anything to entice Drs. to "become Drs.?
I guess I wish just anyone could be a Doc---HA HA---that isn't going to happen! Only those who can truly handle that education can be a Dr.
Your Canada info. gave me some perspective to put all this together in my mind. cool!
reinbeau
Moderator Extraordinaire
HiDelight, Olympia Snow is what we call a RINO - Republican in Name Only. Most of them are. Those of us who are true conservatives have very few in the party who we believe are true conservatives, too. They want to win the popular vote, so they vote left of center, because they think that's what the people want. The fact is more than 40% of the American public identifies themselves as conservative - that's not counting the independents who are right of center. The loudest, most vocal are from the left, the left owns the mainstream (I call them lamestream) media, and dominates Hollyweird. Being the loudest does not make you correct.
I don't think you'll find a single person who doesn't agree that healthcare in this country needs reform, the issue is, how should it be done and how should it be paid for. I want the reforms first, fraud and waste eliminated first, if they've identified an amount that will be 'saved' then they know where it's coming from - fix it! Once things are fixed, then decide how to proceed.
Allow true competition across state lines. Insurance companies can't compete right now.
Maternity? Don't even get me started. Women have been birthing babies since time began, unless there are complications, it shouldn't be treated as an illness, it's a natural process! I have to say, however, I needed those doctors, my child and I would have died in childbirth, there was no way he was coming out without surgery. But I am not the norm. The norm is like my girlfriend who woofs the babies out in no time at all. Midwifery is the way to go provided you've got a good midwife system nearby!
I don't think you'll find a single person who doesn't agree that healthcare in this country needs reform, the issue is, how should it be done and how should it be paid for. I want the reforms first, fraud and waste eliminated first, if they've identified an amount that will be 'saved' then they know where it's coming from - fix it! Once things are fixed, then decide how to proceed.
Allow true competition across state lines. Insurance companies can't compete right now.
Maternity? Don't even get me started. Women have been birthing babies since time began, unless there are complications, it shouldn't be treated as an illness, it's a natural process! I have to say, however, I needed those doctors, my child and I would have died in childbirth, there was no way he was coming out without surgery. But I am not the norm. The norm is like my girlfriend who woofs the babies out in no time at all. Midwifery is the way to go provided you've got a good midwife system nearby!
