Denim Deb
More Precious than Rubies
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Since it didn't happen to me, 
Hillfarm - good news, thank heavens.
- Thread starter hillfarm
- Start date
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- #72
hillfarm
Lovin' The Homestead
I would like to say that I was a single teen mom. I did not do drugs or drink to any damage. I was not a great mom, I yelled and I was not always there for her. I fed her well, kept a roof over her head and worked hard and went to school. I had horrible marriages and she suffered threw a poor lifestyle, meaning I never did have any money. But she was never dirty, hungry or neglected or abused. I will admit I was very stressed and wasnt the kindest person. She did deserve a better mom, but I always have loved her, and been there.
Now my daughter has always and I mean always been a very confrontational and angry kid. At fifteen she was diagnosed with depression. She never did take the meds. I had a psychitzophrenic brother and her granpa is bi polar. So she has a family history of mental illness.
To be honest, she is exactly like my father. Pissed at everyone all the time but the kindest and smartest person when they wanna be. Its a real jekyl and hyde thing.
So i have always walked on egg shells around her as we have gotten older. She's grown now. A few months ago i found out she took money from my first husband. This is the man who raped and beat me. I had to have him arrested and flew with my daughter when she was a toddler in the middle of the night. This man is of no biological relation.
When I confronted her, I was cussed and called by my first name and told I deserved to be hated.
When I confronted him, he ignored me.
So my comment to my daughter is that I love her and I forgive her and I would like to heal this.
This was responded to with venom. Not surprised. She saw it as me trying to keep her from getting money she wanted.
I saw it as my child befriending the man who raped her mother.
Funny, that this is now a lie according to my daughter. Never happened, cus she has heard his side. Yet, I have police reports and restraining orders from 20 years ago.
I have notified gma that this man is back, to her horror and mine. She is terrified for my daughter and the other children in the family.
I still have kids at home and have asked her not to come around or contact me till she has removed him and his threat. She has now accused me of witholding her brother and sister from her.
No matter what I say or do, I am wrong. I fear for her safety and my own.
I have said my piece with kindness and love. I have zero guilt about how I have responded to this.
My problem is feeling so betrayed and hurt and afraid.
What did I ever do to deserve this from my child. I lost every financial comfort I ever had fleeing in the night to protect her from this monster. Now she welcomes him into her life?? I have been sick for days, no eating, throwing up, crying jags.
Mom tells me that it cus she's dumb and young and wants a male figure in her life, i get that. But this is so horrific. I dont want to wipe her out of my life or her half siblings life, but what do i do. she sees nothing wrong with her actions. Its like her conscience is just gone.
Any advice. And be gentle, I know I wasnt the best parent, but I did what i knew and i was loyal and never tried to cause her pain. I loved her with my every being and fought every day to keep her safe and fed. So yes, I should of done things better, but I did the best I could with what I knew.
Now my daughter has always and I mean always been a very confrontational and angry kid. At fifteen she was diagnosed with depression. She never did take the meds. I had a psychitzophrenic brother and her granpa is bi polar. So she has a family history of mental illness.
To be honest, she is exactly like my father. Pissed at everyone all the time but the kindest and smartest person when they wanna be. Its a real jekyl and hyde thing.
So i have always walked on egg shells around her as we have gotten older. She's grown now. A few months ago i found out she took money from my first husband. This is the man who raped and beat me. I had to have him arrested and flew with my daughter when she was a toddler in the middle of the night. This man is of no biological relation.
When I confronted her, I was cussed and called by my first name and told I deserved to be hated.
When I confronted him, he ignored me.
So my comment to my daughter is that I love her and I forgive her and I would like to heal this.
This was responded to with venom. Not surprised. She saw it as me trying to keep her from getting money she wanted.
I saw it as my child befriending the man who raped her mother.
Funny, that this is now a lie according to my daughter. Never happened, cus she has heard his side. Yet, I have police reports and restraining orders from 20 years ago.
I have notified gma that this man is back, to her horror and mine. She is terrified for my daughter and the other children in the family.
I still have kids at home and have asked her not to come around or contact me till she has removed him and his threat. She has now accused me of witholding her brother and sister from her.
No matter what I say or do, I am wrong. I fear for her safety and my own.
I have said my piece with kindness and love. I have zero guilt about how I have responded to this.
My problem is feeling so betrayed and hurt and afraid.
What did I ever do to deserve this from my child. I lost every financial comfort I ever had fleeing in the night to protect her from this monster. Now she welcomes him into her life?? I have been sick for days, no eating, throwing up, crying jags.
Mom tells me that it cus she's dumb and young and wants a male figure in her life, i get that. But this is so horrific. I dont want to wipe her out of my life or her half siblings life, but what do i do. she sees nothing wrong with her actions. Its like her conscience is just gone.
Any advice. And be gentle, I know I wasnt the best parent, but I did what i knew and i was loyal and never tried to cause her pain. I loved her with my every being and fought every day to keep her safe and fed. So yes, I should of done things better, but I did the best I could with what I knew.
- Thread starter
- #74
hillfarm
Lovin' The Homestead
Yep, that has been suggested.
I hate that my reaction is to want to get as far away and stay away. I dont talk to the other two family members, dad and brother who are just like this. Their cruelty is just not worth maintaining the relationship. I dont want to walk away from my daughter, I have to temporarily to protect the minor children now but I dont want to slam the door.
Maybe I should google the disorder and educate myself. Thanks.
I hate that my reaction is to want to get as far away and stay away. I dont talk to the other two family members, dad and brother who are just like this. Their cruelty is just not worth maintaining the relationship. I dont want to walk away from my daughter, I have to temporarily to protect the minor children now but I dont want to slam the door.
Maybe I should google the disorder and educate myself. Thanks.
Denim Deb
More Precious than Rubies
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Tell her that you love her, but cannot support her in this. And, that as long as she's w/him, you cannot and will not let her in your house. But, also let her know that when she finally realizes the truth, and needs you, you will be there for her.
dragonlaurel
Improvising a more SS life
It sounds like you were a caring Mom that has just been through too much, to always be Mrs Happy. It's a shame the marriages were really bad, but sometimes that happens. You got away and tried to make sure your family was safe and had the essentials. Since she was a toddler when you left him- she probably doesn't understand how dangerous things were.
Maybe her Grandma could let her know the truth about him. He is probably lying through his teeth to sound like a good guy. I don't want to be mean, but she sounds very manipulative. She probably thinks she can get what she wants from him and have a father figure. He may have become a better person, or she may decide he is scum herself.
Hopefully, the years since then have made him less of a threat. You should still mention to the police that he is in touch with your daughter. It may help things get handled more quickly if he tries anything.
Just for extra insurance- If she has a key to your house, change the locks. That eliminates the risk of him stealing her key. If she visits later, she can knock on the door. You are in charge of the safety of your home. She can visit the siblings with you present, so you know everybody is safe.
She may need more maturity to understand how you feel, and have a better relationship with you. Tell her you love her but that visiting has to be on your terms.
MorelCabin
Quilting Extraordinaire
I totally agree with Deb...BPD or not...really, there are alot of excuses for these kinds of behavior out there, but the fact is that those kinds of behaviors need to be confronted, and put in thier place. The ONLY way is to be tough, and then forgiving with repentance. I will warn you now that there will be many games played.Denim Deb said:
We have gone thru the same thing...and our son apparently has a 'personality disorder' as well...so his latest pshych tells him...
I will tell you this though, his personality sure changed around us over time when he figured out he couldn't play us anymore. He is respectful and loving these days...but it took a few years of not allowing him anywhere near us to get this far.
rebecca100
Almost Self-Reliant
I don't know what to say. Don't give in and she will eventually give in when she sees the person he actually is. People like him cannot hide how they truly are for very long and she will eventually see.
Don't give in and she will eventually give in when she sees the person he actually is. People like him cannot hide how they truly are for very long and she will eventually see.
Wifezilla
Low-Carb Queen - RIP: 1963-2021
"Borderline personality disorder (BPD) is a serious mental illness characterized by pervasive instability in moods, interpersonal relationships, self-image, and behavior. This instability often disrupts family and work life, long-term planning, and the individual's sense of self-identity. Originally thought to be at the "borderline" of psychosis, people with BPD suffer from a disorder of emotion regulation. While less well known than schizophrenia or bipolar disorder (manic-depressive illness), BPD is more common, affecting 2 percent of adults, mostly young women.1 There is a high rate of self-injury without suicide intent, as well as a significant rate of suicide attempts and completed suicide in severe cases.2,3 Patients often need extensive mental health services, and account for 20 percent of psychiatric hospitalizations.4 Yet, with help, many improve over time and are eventually able to lead productive lives.
Symptoms
While a person with depression or bipolar disorder typically endures the same mood for weeks, a person with BPD may experience intense bouts of anger, depression, and anxiety that may last only hours, or at most a day.5 These may be associated with episodes of impulsive aggression, self-injury, and drug or alcohol abuse. Distortions in cognition and sense of self can lead to frequent changes in long-term goals, career plans, jobs, friendships, gender identity, and values. Sometimes people with BPD view themselves as fundamentally bad, or unworthy. They may feel unfairly misunderstood or mistreated, bored, empty, and have little idea who they are. Such symptoms are most acute when people with BPD feel isolated and lacking in social support, and may result in frantic efforts to avoid being alone.
People with BPD often have highly unstable patterns of social relationships. While they can develop intense but stormy attachments, their attitudes towards family, friends, and loved ones may suddenly shift from idealization (great admiration and love) to devaluation (intense anger and dislike). Thus, they may form an immediate attachment and idealize the other person, but when a slight separation or conflict occurs, they switch unexpectedly to the other extreme and angrily accuse the other person of not caring for them at all. Even with family members, individuals with BPD are highly sensitive to rejection, reacting with anger and distress to such mild separations as a vacation, a business trip, or a sudden change in plans. These fears of abandonment seem to be related to difficulties feeling emotionally connected to important persons when they are physically absent, leaving the individual with BPD feeling lost and perhaps worthless. Suicide threats and attempts may occur along with anger at perceived abandonment and disappointments.
People with BPD exhibit other impulsive behaviors, such as excessive spending, binge eating and risky sex. BPD often occurs together with other psychiatric problems, particularly bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, and other personality disorders.
Treatment
Treatments for BPD have improved in recent years. Group and individual psychotherapy are at least partially effective for many patients. Within the past 15 years, a new psychosocial treatment termed dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) was developed specifically to treat BPD, and this technique has looked promising in treatment studies.6 Pharmacological treatments are often prescribed based on specific target symptoms shown by the individual patient. Antidepressant drugs and mood stabilizers may be helpful for depressed and/or labile mood. Antipsychotic drugs may also be used when there are distortions in thinking.7
Recent Research Findings
Although the cause of BPD is unknown, both environmental and genetic factors are thought to play a role in predisposing patients to BPD symptoms and traits. Studies show that many, but not all individuals with BPD report a history of abuse, neglect, or separation as young children.8 Forty to 71 percent of BPD patients report having been sexually abused, usually by a non-caregiver.9 Researchers believe that BPD results from a combination of individual vulnerability to environmental stress, neglect or abuse as young children, and a series of events that trigger the onset of the disorder as young adults. Adults with BPD are also considerably more likely to be the victim of violence, including rape and other crimes. This may result from both harmful environments as well as impulsivity and poor judgement in choosing partners and lifestyles.
NIMH-funded neuroscience research is revealing brain mechanisms underlying the impulsivity, mood instability, aggression, anger, and negative emotion seen in BPD. Studies suggest that people predisposed to impulsive aggression have impaired regulation of the neural circuits that modulate emotion.10 The amygdala, a small almond-shaped structure deep inside the brain, is an important component of the circuit that regulates negative emotion. In response to signals from other brain centers indicating a perceived threat, it marshals fear and arousal. This might be more pronounced under the influence of drugs like alcohol, or stress. Areas in the front of the brain (pre-frontal area) act to dampen the activity of this circuit. Recent brain imaging studies show that individual differences in the ability to activate regions of the prefrontal cerebral cortex thought to be involved in inhibitory activity predict the ability to suppress negative emotion.11
Serotonin, norepinephrine and acetylcholine are among the chemical messengers in these circuits that play a role in the regulation of emotions, including sadness, anger, anxiety, and irritability. Drugs that enhance brain serotonin function may improve emotional symptoms in BPD. Likewise, mood-stabilizing drugs that are known to enhance the activity of GABA, the brain's major inhibitory neurotransmitter, may help people who experience BPD-like mood swings. Such brain-based vulnerabilities can be managed with help from behavioral interventions and medications, much like people manage susceptibility to diabetes or high blood pressure.7"
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/borderline-personality-disorder-fact-sheet/index.shtml
When dealing with someone who has a mental illness, it helps to recognize that it isn't their fault they have "brain cooties", but it is their responsibility how they deal with their illness. You have to set serious limits and be very consistent. You also have to be informed and compassionate. If you have to distance yourself for your OWN mental health, your health comes first at this point.
Symptoms
While a person with depression or bipolar disorder typically endures the same mood for weeks, a person with BPD may experience intense bouts of anger, depression, and anxiety that may last only hours, or at most a day.5 These may be associated with episodes of impulsive aggression, self-injury, and drug or alcohol abuse. Distortions in cognition and sense of self can lead to frequent changes in long-term goals, career plans, jobs, friendships, gender identity, and values. Sometimes people with BPD view themselves as fundamentally bad, or unworthy. They may feel unfairly misunderstood or mistreated, bored, empty, and have little idea who they are. Such symptoms are most acute when people with BPD feel isolated and lacking in social support, and may result in frantic efforts to avoid being alone.
People with BPD often have highly unstable patterns of social relationships. While they can develop intense but stormy attachments, their attitudes towards family, friends, and loved ones may suddenly shift from idealization (great admiration and love) to devaluation (intense anger and dislike). Thus, they may form an immediate attachment and idealize the other person, but when a slight separation or conflict occurs, they switch unexpectedly to the other extreme and angrily accuse the other person of not caring for them at all. Even with family members, individuals with BPD are highly sensitive to rejection, reacting with anger and distress to such mild separations as a vacation, a business trip, or a sudden change in plans. These fears of abandonment seem to be related to difficulties feeling emotionally connected to important persons when they are physically absent, leaving the individual with BPD feeling lost and perhaps worthless. Suicide threats and attempts may occur along with anger at perceived abandonment and disappointments.
People with BPD exhibit other impulsive behaviors, such as excessive spending, binge eating and risky sex. BPD often occurs together with other psychiatric problems, particularly bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, and other personality disorders.
Treatment
Treatments for BPD have improved in recent years. Group and individual psychotherapy are at least partially effective for many patients. Within the past 15 years, a new psychosocial treatment termed dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) was developed specifically to treat BPD, and this technique has looked promising in treatment studies.6 Pharmacological treatments are often prescribed based on specific target symptoms shown by the individual patient. Antidepressant drugs and mood stabilizers may be helpful for depressed and/or labile mood. Antipsychotic drugs may also be used when there are distortions in thinking.7
Recent Research Findings
Although the cause of BPD is unknown, both environmental and genetic factors are thought to play a role in predisposing patients to BPD symptoms and traits. Studies show that many, but not all individuals with BPD report a history of abuse, neglect, or separation as young children.8 Forty to 71 percent of BPD patients report having been sexually abused, usually by a non-caregiver.9 Researchers believe that BPD results from a combination of individual vulnerability to environmental stress, neglect or abuse as young children, and a series of events that trigger the onset of the disorder as young adults. Adults with BPD are also considerably more likely to be the victim of violence, including rape and other crimes. This may result from both harmful environments as well as impulsivity and poor judgement in choosing partners and lifestyles.
NIMH-funded neuroscience research is revealing brain mechanisms underlying the impulsivity, mood instability, aggression, anger, and negative emotion seen in BPD. Studies suggest that people predisposed to impulsive aggression have impaired regulation of the neural circuits that modulate emotion.10 The amygdala, a small almond-shaped structure deep inside the brain, is an important component of the circuit that regulates negative emotion. In response to signals from other brain centers indicating a perceived threat, it marshals fear and arousal. This might be more pronounced under the influence of drugs like alcohol, or stress. Areas in the front of the brain (pre-frontal area) act to dampen the activity of this circuit. Recent brain imaging studies show that individual differences in the ability to activate regions of the prefrontal cerebral cortex thought to be involved in inhibitory activity predict the ability to suppress negative emotion.11
Serotonin, norepinephrine and acetylcholine are among the chemical messengers in these circuits that play a role in the regulation of emotions, including sadness, anger, anxiety, and irritability. Drugs that enhance brain serotonin function may improve emotional symptoms in BPD. Likewise, mood-stabilizing drugs that are known to enhance the activity of GABA, the brain's major inhibitory neurotransmitter, may help people who experience BPD-like mood swings. Such brain-based vulnerabilities can be managed with help from behavioral interventions and medications, much like people manage susceptibility to diabetes or high blood pressure.7"
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/borderline-personality-disorder-fact-sheet/index.shtml
When dealing with someone who has a mental illness, it helps to recognize that it isn't their fault they have "brain cooties", but it is their responsibility how they deal with their illness. You have to set serious limits and be very consistent. You also have to be informed and compassionate. If you have to distance yourself for your OWN mental health, your health comes first at this point.
lwheelr
Lovin' The Homestead
Oh, I ache for you with this. I've been there. My daughter has Fetal Drug Effect (from necessary prescription drugs when I was pregnant with her), and has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder (she had a complete psych eval less than a year after leaving home, and did NOT have this disorder... so I did not give it to her, she acquired it long AFTER leaving home).
For six years she told another of my daughters lies, until it nearly destroyed the other one. She tried to tell her that SHE was really the one who took care of her, fed her, changed her, stayed up nights with her, taught her to read, etc. Those things are all provably wrong (for example, she could not read herself, there was no way she could have taught her sister to read, and she remembers herself the first time she changed a diaper, and this other daughter was already two years old at the time, so she knows she's lying). But she nearly shattered our younger daughter with those lies. When I confronted her, she said she never said ANYthing like THAT to her (picture wide eyed innocence here). She cannot tell the truth from a lie - she is honestly incapable of telling the difference. For her, getting what she thinks she wants is the most important thing at any given time, and she'll do whatever she thinks she has to. The rules of life are not what is right or wrong, it is whatever the people she is around want them to be. She's manipulative enough to have the relatives snowed by her lies - fortunately, the rest of the kids in our family know the truth.
She has behaved progressively more hateful to me since she left home, and has blamed me for everything that she has done wrong. When she let a guy move in with her, and then he slept around on her, that was my fault, even though I taught her differently. Everything in her life is like that - tragically wrong, and my fault.
She lied to get into the military, and said it was ok to lie about it because the recruiter told her to (I doubt that). Her relationships are rocky, her marriage lasted three months before it was in trouble, and they were divorced little more than a year later.
So I really do understand how hurtful it is. I've had to come to a difficult realization:
I can't make her life better. I think she is actually incapable of making good choices, and I want more than anything to protect her and help her. But she won't let me. She wants to take the easy way in everything, and will always cause suffering for herself, and I will always be the person to blame, even though she has barely talked to me in the last five years.
I have realized that in this life, I have lost my daughter. There is damage to her that can't be repaired or compensated for in this life. I can see where she will end up. I know the hurt she will cause herself, and I know she will die painfully because she will refuse to admit that she has medical issues that require medication. And I have to let her go, and let her do that.
This is my sweet daughter whom I loved, cared for, and raised as best I was able. I was in no way a perfect mother, but I also know with a completely clear conscience that I did not do this to her. I am not to blame for her choices.
All I can do is pray for her, and accept whatever she chooses to give from here on out. I cannot even advise her, it will be taken wrong. So I don't try. I have realized that I will have to watch her destroy her life, and I will not have any say in it at all. If ever SHE changes her actions toward me, I will welcome it and accept whatever she can offer. But I don't expect her to ever really change. I don't think she has the wiring in her brain to be able to do it.
It breaks my heart. But it is the reality that I have to live with where she is concerned.
For six years she told another of my daughters lies, until it nearly destroyed the other one. She tried to tell her that SHE was really the one who took care of her, fed her, changed her, stayed up nights with her, taught her to read, etc. Those things are all provably wrong (for example, she could not read herself, there was no way she could have taught her sister to read, and she remembers herself the first time she changed a diaper, and this other daughter was already two years old at the time, so she knows she's lying). But she nearly shattered our younger daughter with those lies. When I confronted her, she said she never said ANYthing like THAT to her (picture wide eyed innocence here). She cannot tell the truth from a lie - she is honestly incapable of telling the difference. For her, getting what she thinks she wants is the most important thing at any given time, and she'll do whatever she thinks she has to. The rules of life are not what is right or wrong, it is whatever the people she is around want them to be. She's manipulative enough to have the relatives snowed by her lies - fortunately, the rest of the kids in our family know the truth.
She has behaved progressively more hateful to me since she left home, and has blamed me for everything that she has done wrong. When she let a guy move in with her, and then he slept around on her, that was my fault, even though I taught her differently. Everything in her life is like that - tragically wrong, and my fault.
She lied to get into the military, and said it was ok to lie about it because the recruiter told her to (I doubt that). Her relationships are rocky, her marriage lasted three months before it was in trouble, and they were divorced little more than a year later.
So I really do understand how hurtful it is. I've had to come to a difficult realization:
I can't make her life better. I think she is actually incapable of making good choices, and I want more than anything to protect her and help her. But she won't let me. She wants to take the easy way in everything, and will always cause suffering for herself, and I will always be the person to blame, even though she has barely talked to me in the last five years.
I have realized that in this life, I have lost my daughter. There is damage to her that can't be repaired or compensated for in this life. I can see where she will end up. I know the hurt she will cause herself, and I know she will die painfully because she will refuse to admit that she has medical issues that require medication. And I have to let her go, and let her do that.
This is my sweet daughter whom I loved, cared for, and raised as best I was able. I was in no way a perfect mother, but I also know with a completely clear conscience that I did not do this to her. I am not to blame for her choices.
All I can do is pray for her, and accept whatever she chooses to give from here on out. I cannot even advise her, it will be taken wrong. So I don't try. I have realized that I will have to watch her destroy her life, and I will not have any say in it at all. If ever SHE changes her actions toward me, I will welcome it and accept whatever she can offer. But I don't expect her to ever really change. I don't think she has the wiring in her brain to be able to do it.
It breaks my heart. But it is the reality that I have to live with where she is concerned.
